Archive:2006-10-18/transcript

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<paulproteus> Who all is around during this meeting?  Announce yourselves, please.
<skyfaller> ... and silence descends
* paulproteus waves to tannewt and Gnuklear 
<skyfaller> do we need any help with Wordpress stuff?  Firas is online
<tannewt> I'm half listening
<skyfaller> and offered to help me with FC Swat when I screwed up their wordpress blog
<paulproteus> I don't think we need any help with WordPress right now.
<paulproteus> http://wiki.freeculture.org/2006-10-18#Agenda
<paulproteus> Well, skyfaller, you're the customer tonight.  What would you like?
<paulproteus> Don't say "mailing lists"; I'm working on that. (-;
<paulproteus> rejon, BTW, did you ever look at the existing alternatives to spread.freeculture.org?  How do they compare?
<skyfaller> well, I guess after that, our front page is important to our image
<skyfaller> so let's fix the wheel-duplication and get rid of that error
<paulproteus> Right, that magpie RSS junk is dumb.
<skyfaller> then I'd like the spam to go away, because it is impossible to manage this level of spam with only Thunderbird's spam filter
<paulproteus> skyfaller, How many in a day?
<paulproteus> Approximately, anyway.
<skyfaller> paulproteus: I don't know, maybe it's not that bad, but I opened up the mail client and saw 600 spam in the inbox
* abhay (n=abhay@pdpc/supporter/student/Aranis) has joined #freeculture
<jibot> abhay is Abhay Kumar
<skyfaller> 60 spams are still there, after Thunderbird's filter kicked in
<abhay> greets all 
<skyfaller> hi abhay :)
<paulproteus> abhay, We're chatting about http://wiki.freeculture.org/2006-10-18#Agenda .
<paulproteus> The dust has mostly settled since our move from Leafyhost.
* ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.69.175.myacc.net) has joined #freeculture
<paulproteus> Thanks a million for visiting the site of the tragedy, btw.
<abhay> no worries. it's unfortunate that i couldn't do anything
<abhay> so did we move somewhere else?
<paulproteus> Yeah, we're on a Xen guest at acm.jhu.edu, the JHU computing club of which I'm the sysadmin.
<abhay> very nice
<paulproteus> We're going to further move that Xen guest to a personal server of mine hosted in Joi Ito's office when it gets built and shipped to Japan (which should be within the month).
<abhay> oh whoah
<paulproteus> Once that starts to happen, we'll talk about some reasonable warm or hot fail-over plan.
<skyfaller> offtopic, but isn't there a way to make Thunderbird display the first line of an e-mail, like Gmail does?
<skyfaller> it helps a lot when trying to detect spam
<paulproteus> abhay, Do you have some time perhaps to help us sort out more mundane issues?
<abhay> why do you want to detect spam on your email client? 
<abhay> why wouldn't you want a blacklist/greylist? 
<abhay> and then things filter server-side
<paulproteus> abhay, Or to give us suggestions about how to configure our mail server. (-;
<paulproteus> abhay, Greylisting I understand.  Blacklisting isn't a good combination of (fair, effective), when last I looked at it.
<skyfaller> abhay: I'm happy with anything that reduces the amount of spam I see :)  But some spam always gets through, and it's nice to be able to see the first line of an e-mail
<skyfaller> I'll go ask in mozilla's channel or something
<paulproteus> Greylisting requires delaying the first email from each sender for a short while, which isn't bad.
<paulproteus> skyfaller, #thunderbird on irc.mozilla.org iirc.
<paulproteus> So apparently there's a frickin' OCR plugin for spamassassin.
<paulproteus> There are reports that dspam seems to handle image spam okay.
<skyfaller> wow, that sounds pretty cool
<paulproteus> I kinda want to limit the time I spend on FC.o web/tech stuff for the coming week because I can already see it's very busy.
<skyfaller> paulproteus: no prob
<paulproteus> tannewt, Do me a favor, check if you can SSH into the new freeculture.org (==castor.acm.jhu.edu).
<paulproteus> abhay, Can I interest you in hacking the PHP that generates our front page?
<tannewt> paulproteus, sure
<abhay> i've been avoiding php recently. what needs to be done though? 
<paulproteus> Right now there's a cron job that downloads some RSS feeds every 30 minutes and jams them into the front page.
<paulproteus> It's in PHP for no particular reason.
<paulproteus> Since it saves its output to a static file and then exits.
<paulproteus> Instead of polling those RSS feeds directly, we'd rather have it poll the feeds generated by our Planet installs, one at freeculture.org/planet , the other at freeculture.org/chapters .
<tannewt> paulproteus, its not working
<paulproteus> tannewt, Even on castor.acm.jhu.edu?  username is freecult?
<skyfaller> paulproteus: well, the personal planet doesn't go on the front page yet
<paulproteus> If you're looking for a time to test some Ruby or Python or C (!) XML parsing joy, you could do that here if you like; I'm not picky about the language.
<skyfaller> just the chapters planet
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Oh, right, I just mean polling the chapters planet and the real FC.o blog.
<paulproteus> Thanks.
<abhay> so what really needs to be done again? 
<tannewt> paulproteus, I forgot to change the username.  It worked.
<paulproteus> Modify this cron job (written in PHP right now) so that it takes its data from our Planet's RSS feed rather than from its own sources.
<abhay> the current code is bad so replace it?
<paulproteus> tannewt, Sweet.
<abhay> oh 
<abhay> gotcha
<paulproteus> abhay, The current code is bearable, the problem is that we want a different data source.
<skyfaller> and then if the error doesn't go away, we'll need to fix it
<abhay> so just change the feed link? why isn't that just something that's compartmentalized in the front of the script or outside the script anyway? 
<abhay> yeah i know.. obvious question
<paulproteus> abhay, It might be, I just haven't looked carefully at it.
<paulproteus> abhay, Feel free to SSH in, do it in five minutes, and say, "paulproteus, you loser, it's done". (-;
<skyfaller> I mean, is there a better way than magpie?
<skyfaller> is our code ugly and stupid?
<skyfaller> that's not something I'm qualified to judge
<abhay> username is still freecult?
<paulproteus> abhay, Yup.  And domain is freeculture.org == castor.acm.jhu.edu.
<abhay> k 
<paulproteus> Tell me if things work out okay for you re: login.
<abhay> yup i'm in
<paulproteus> skyfaller, What can you do to help me get forwarding addresses?
<skyfaller> paulproteus: say wha?
<paulproteus> I want to fix forwarding addresses.
<paulproteus> They're easy and imho important.
<paulproteus> Do you know what people had them and with what names, by any chance?
<paulproteus> If so, I can look up their email addresses.
<skyfaller> I know everyone on the board had them
<skyfaller> which is right and proper
<skyfaller> I think I'm the only one who uses mine :P
<paulproteus> abhay, Cool, let me know what you find.
<skyfaller> but give one to everyone on the board, including gavin even though he theoretically resigned
<paulproteus> Sure.  Board list?
<skyfaller> http://freeculture.org/about.php
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Okay, sounds good, I'll do that offline after the meeting.
<skyfaller> kk
<abhay> paulproteus: what is the php script called?
<paulproteus> abhay, Do "crontab -l"
<paulproteus> It should be mentioned in there.
<abhay> oh
<abhay> duh
<paulproteus> No problem. (-:
<abhay> i've been staring at config files all day trying to get my own vps up 
<abhay> :(
<paulproteus> Oh, interesting.
<paulproteus> (Do you know about serverpronto.com?)
<abhay> i use slicehost
<abhay> and mediatemples grid
<paulproteus> Interesting re: slicehost.
<abhay> they are awesome
<abhay> and the guys who own it are as well
<paulproteus> My serverpronto.com setup has had no problems, but I'm happy to move to Joi's network. (-:
<paulproteus> Sadly the latency is 200ms round-trip. |-:
<paulproteus> (From the east coast.)
<abhay> yeah ouch
<abhay> that's what i was wondering about 
<paulproteus> It's okay, 'cause I get to build myself a beasty 1U machine with terabytes of disk and have free bandwidth.  But I digress, and we'll see how it goes anyway.
<skyfaller> ok, so, where are we in the bugs?
<paulproteus> Right, good question.
<abhay> so we want this planet's feed? http://planet.freeculture.org/
<skyfaller> abhay: no
<skyfaller> freeculture.org/chapters/
<abhay> oh
<abhay> paulproteus: where are you getting the cash together for the 1U
<abhay> and the shipping
<abhay> heh
<paulproteus> Yeah, the shipping....
<paulproteus> Sharing with some friends some of whom want shells, some of whom want IMAP, but we can talk about this offline too. (-:
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Well, let's prioritize.
<skyfaller> ok, everyone who is here has working SSH keys
<skyfaller> so we're done with that part of the agenda for now
<skyfaller> abhay is looking at the wheel-duplicating setup
<abhay> wheel duplicating?
<skyfaller> paulproteus: are you looking into spam solutions?  That seems to be next on the agenda
<abhay> oo it's an atom feed
<paulproteus> There should also be an RSS 1.0 feed, if you're into that sort of thing, I would guess.
<skyfaller> abhay: yes, we have two different lists of chapters feeds, one for the front page aggregator and one for the planet install.  This is dumb
<abhay> ah 
<abhay> agreed
<paulproteus> skyfaller, For a purely content perspective, https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/37797 ?
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Sounds like I should officially take cwilkin's job and put myself on about.php (and boost my PageRank).
<paulproteus> Er, I didn't say that. (-;
<skyfaller> paulproteus: sure :)  as long as you put up a photo and bio
<skyfaller> you'll need to make a new heading below the board of directors, I guess...  or above it, depending on how active the board of directors is :P
* paulproteus chuckles
<paulproteus> Below is fine.
<paulproteus> Should I comment out Gavin or something?
<poningru> comment out gavin?
<poningru> what?
<poningru> he says yes
<paulproteus> Gavin resigned from his Board position.
<poningru> yes
<paulproteus> Maybe I'll make an alumni section.  Is that okay with Gavin?
<paulproteus> (And with skyfaller, etc?)
<paulproteus> (like cc.org has alumni)
<poningru> y
<skyfaller> yeah, sure, make alumni
<paulproteus> (They have it as a separate page, but when ours starts to get big then maybe we'll move it.)
<poningru> --gavin
<paulproteus> Thanks, Gavin. (-:
<skyfaller> just put it below active "staff"
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<paulproteus> Ew, what did I do to the style? /me reverts
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<paulproteus> Well, uh, I'll keep Gavin at the bottom, there, done.
<paulproteus> So I guess you want me to do something about spam, eh skyfaller?
<paulproteus> I'll try spamassassin for now, then.
<skyfaller> heh :) um, you gave up on adding yourself to the page?
<paulproteus> For now, at least.  Later in life I will.
<skyfaller> sure, spamassassin works
<skyfaller> um, at least it does if you think it works
<paulproteus> abhay, How's that front page hackery going?  Any problems?
<abhay> yup 
<abhay> but working on it
<paulproteus> abhay, Great, thanks a bajillion.
<paulproteus> Not least for putting up with PHP.
<paulproteus> I think we can call this meeting to a close.  abhay and I are still working on things, but that can continue offline.
<paulproteus> Anything else worth discussing?
<skyfaller> um, I guess not
<skyfaller> did you already annoy Xopher?
<paulproteus> Anyone offended by me taking FC.o's website and putting it in Mr. Ito's server rack?
<paulproteus> I didn't fresh today, no.
<skyfaller> should I go bug him, or would that serve no purpose?
<skyfaller> I guess if there is bugging to be done, I'd prefer you to do it
<skyfaller> we've double-teamed him more than once
<paulproteus> I'll ping him right now.
<paulproteus> There, he's IM'd.  We'll see what he does.
<skyfaller> w00t!
* grahl (n=grahl@ip70-171-41-220.ga.at.cox.net) has joined #freeculture
<jibot> grahl is Jan Hendrik Grahl. He is the treasurer for Florida Free Culture and an international student at the University of Florida. He doesn't post enough on his blog http://grahli.net
<skyfaller> well, I guess the last question is, is the way we're running the web team now sustainable?
<skyfaller> if not, what can we do to make it work better in the future?
<paulproteus> Good question.
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Xopher says he's at a meeting right now but that he sent it to you.
<paulproteus> "it" == more mailing list data, I presume.
<skyfaller> paulproteus: he may think that the first one had all of the mailing list data... did you make it clear to him that this is not the case?  
<Gnuklear> Ah! Sorry, completely missed the meeting... but, I'm here now... anybody sign my life away while I was gone?
<paulproteus> Gnuklear, No, not lately.
<paulproteus> skyfaller, Making that clear.
<paulproteus> re: sustainability: We can scrape by with me at the bottom of it for a long time.  I think that's an interesting question but should be tabled until we're back to fully functional.
<paulproteus> Christopher Budnick: I don't know - I sent two dumps to Nelson and never received anything back from him
<paulproteus> skyfaller, can you confirm or deny "two dumps"?
<skyfaller> paulproteus: I got two e-mails from Xopher.  I replied to both of them
<skyfaller> with a quick "thanks"
<skyfaller> the first was the general backup
<skyfaller> the second was the incomplete mailing list backup
<skyfaller> I have not received any further e-mails from him
<paulproteus> Okay, he's aware of this but now off AIM.
<skyfaller> ok
<Gnuklear> Well, we're a bit past it, but I can confirm that SSH is working for me as well on the new server
<paulproteus> Gnuklear, Awesome. (-:
<skyfaller> w00t ^_^
* evanpro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
<paulproteus> skyfaller, While we're here, can we close https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/39389 or https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/39390 ?
<paulproteus> Say, Gnuklear, could you take a look at https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/39389 ?
<paulproteus> The key to this bug is reskinning the Planet install.
<Gnuklear> Hmm... I'll take a look and see if any plan of action jumps out at me...
<Gnuklear> I mean, take a look at the code...
<paulproteus> (-:
<skyfaller> paulproteus: we can consider 39390 done, I don't care if the personal planet is particularly integrated
<paulproteus> Sounds fine, you can call it resolved then. (-:
<skyfaller> alright, I will change that
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<Gnuklear> paultproteus, if I understand the bug right... then all we're looking to do is add a link to the Chapter information page from the Chapters planet page, yes? If that's the case, then the easiest thing I can think to do is add a link to the chapter info page above "Subscriptions", the text of which being "Chapter Information Page" or something less 1995 sounds, but of that general description.. should I just go ahead and add that in there?
<Gnuklear> *less 1995 sounding
<paulproteus> Gnuklear, Sure, that makes sense.
<paulproteus> Might as well call it "List of all our chapters" rather than "Chapter information page". skyfaller, comment?
<skyfaller> erm, wait
<skyfaller> I'm not sure you completely understand
* paulproteus puts skyfaller and Gnuklear directly in touch
<Gnuklear> Yeah, neither am I, straighten me out
<skyfaller> What I'm concerned about is that I actually want both the information that is on http://freeculture.org/chapters/chapters.php  and http://freeculture.org/chapters/  to be on the same page, in an ideal world...
<skyfaller> but I don't think that's really possible
<paulproteus> Should/could the two just get skinned the same?
<Gnuklear> Ahh... yes, that is quite a different story isn't it.. hmm...
<skyfaller> So what I was proposing in that bug is to have the Chapters aggregator be the main "chapters" link, and have a huge honking button that takes you to http://freeculture.org/chapters/chapters.php
<skyfaller> But I'm not sure that's the best solution
<skyfaller> I'm open to suggestions
<skyfaller> I mean, the chapter news and the list of chapters / map are of equal importance, as far as I'm concerned
<Gnuklear> Well, if we were to do that... I'd suggest reskinning the planet install so that it matches the rest of the site...
<skyfaller> Gnuklear: except the whole site looks ugly
<skyfaller> and it's all due for a complete overhaul
<Gnuklear> ... was just thinking that too, heh
<skyfaller> so I'm not excited about a planet install that looks like the rest of our site
<paulproteus> We've been saying that for a year or more, but we don't have an alternate design, so let's just make it consistent.
<skyfaller> paulproteus: what do you think of using Wordpress as our CMS?
<skyfaller> I think I may have mentioned this idea before
<paulproteus> You surely did.
<paulproteus> I want to think about it carefully.
<paulproteus> Let's talk seriously about that idea next meeting.
<paulproteus> I guess I'll put it on the next meeting's agenda.
<Gnuklear> I've got a bit of wordpress experience, so it would make my life easier ;-)
<paulproteus> Until then, Gnuklear, would it be moderately quick to skin the Planet to look like the real site?
<paulproteus> There's no way we're making such a move sooner than two weeks.
<paulproteus> (I think, anyway.)
<skyfaller> I dunno, i think there are probably more important bugs
<skyfaller> I think that making our planet look like our current site would actually be a cosmetic loss
<Gnuklear> paulproteus, not entirely sure, I'll have to look at how Planet actually handles its layout
<skyfaller> On the other hand, having a menu across the top would be helpful, for getting back to other parts of the site
<Gnuklear> *hopes it's not like some systems that use a half dozen stylesheets or more*
<paulproteus> Gnuklear, index.tmpl
<paulproteus> Let me find it for you.
<paulproteus> Gnuklear, run 'crontab -l'
<paulproteus> That should show you the directory that holds the config file for this.
<Gnuklear> well, that make my life easier
<skyfaller> I guess just make a backup before you edit anything
<paulproteus> Gnuklear, Sorry about not mentioning that before. (-:
<Gnuklear> Lol, it's fine, looking over it, I'm pleasantly surprised...
<paulproteus> I vote firmly for integrating this into the current site design.  Let's get things working, then talk about changing them.
<Gnuklear> It won't be done tonight, but I'll try to have it looking not completely out of place by this weekend
<skyfaller> OK :)
* skyfaller seconds paulproteus's motion
<Gnuklear> Sounds good, the layout change and a link/button to the chapters info page, we all on the same page?
<Gnuklear> Or, I suppose I should say, do we all see that as the two tasks to be accomplished in order to close this bug for now?
<Gnuklear> Just making sure I haven't missed something
* paulproteus defers this to skyfaller
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<jibot> klepas is Pascal Klein, a pixel junkie-cross-college student who enjoys working on desktop artwork and writing words using free software tools. He currently resides in the bush-capital, Canberra, Australia and has a bit of a site at http://klepas.org and a shared one at http://journal.klepas.org
<skyfaller> sure, those sound fine
<skyfaller> as I said, please back up the current design before you start hacking
<Gnuklear> Alright, will do, gonna start on it then
<paulproteus> Thanks a bundle, Gnuklear!