Archive:2007-08-16/log

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Log file opened at: 8/16/07 5:03:21 PM


Topic for #freeculture: FreeCulture.org: students for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: http://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | In case of downtime: http://fcostatus.wordpress.com/ | Bylaws RC2 meeting, 2007-08-16 at 8 pm EDT: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Bylaws


Topic for #freeculture set by gavinbaker on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:26:57 PM


#freeculture: peabo dirty_harry Lam_ mark007 tannewt ftobia skyfaller_ conley danjared jli K`Tetch johnsu01 klepas jibot sahal _sj_ [autonomy] paulproteus poningru


End of /NAMES list.


peabo H 0 n=peabo@c-24-147-25-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net Peter Olson


dirty_harrH 0 n=ryanfaer@adsl-8-178-178.mia.bellsouth.net Ryan Faerman


Lam_ H 0 n=Lam@246-200.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com Lam


mark007 H 0n=mark007@pool-71-101-200-240.tampfl.dsl-w.veriz Mark


tannewt H 0 n=scott@gentoo/developer/tannewt Unknown


ftobia H 0 n=chatzill@ool-18bb9b30.dyn.optonline.net Frank Tobia


skyfaller_H 0 n=nelson@c-69-143-179-58.hsd1.va.comcast.net Nelson Pavlosky


conley H 0 n=ibcliffo@spode.cs.vt.edu gaim


danjared H 0 n=danjared@VINEGAR-POT.MIT.EDU D. Jared Dominguez


jli G 0 i=jli@gateway/tor/x-450fc11e9503f16a Jli


K`Tetch H 0n=ktetch@adsl-074-166-105-206.sip.asm.bellsouth. K`Tetch


johnsu01 H 0 n=user@fsf/staff/johnsu01 John Sullivan (http://www.wjsullivan.net)


klepas G 0 n=klepas@unaffiliated/klepas Pascal Klein


jibot H 0 i=andy@83.145.232.84 #JoiIto's bot


sahal G 0 i=hobo@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org can't get enough of that sugarcrisp...


_sj_ H 0 n=sj@wikipedia/sj sjk


[autonomy]H 0 n=autonomy@c-71-232-117-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net auto


paulproteuG 0 i=paulprot@29.145.221.202.bf.2iij.net Asheesh Laroia


poningru H 0 n=poningru@ip72-209-65-174.ga.at.cox.net Eldo Varghese


#freeculture End of /WHO list.


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#freeculture You need to be a channel operator to do that


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jibot: Omnifrog is the proud originator of Fair Use Day


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Fahre451: Hi


K`Tetch: lo


Fahre451: hi K


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jibot: gavinbaker is Gavin Baker, a 3rd year political science student at the University of Florida and president of Florida Free Culture <http://uf.freeculture.org>. His Web site is www.gavinbaker.com


gavinbaker has set the topic on channel #freeculture to FreeCulture.org: students for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: http://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | In case of downtime: http://fcostatus.wordpress.com/ | Bylaws RC2 meeting, tonight at 8 pm EDT: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Bylaws


gavinbaker: wait, jibot, wtf? you lost my ?def and replaced it with an old one


gavinbaker: ?def gavinbaker is Gavin Baker


jibot: gavinbaker is Gavin Baker, a 3rd year political science student at the University of Florida and president of Florida Free Culture <http://uf.freeculture.org>. His Web site is www.gavinbaker.com and Gavin Baker


gavinbaker: er


gavinbaker: ?forgetme


jibot: I have expunged gavinbaker from my mind


gavinbaker: ?def gavinbaker is Gavin Baker


jibot: gavinbaker is Gavin Baker


gavinbaker: ?def gavinbaker is www.gavinbaker.com


jibot: gavinbaker is Gavin Baker and www.gavinbaker.com


gavinbaker: ?def gavinbaker is an alumnus of the University of Florida


jibot: gavinbaker is Gavin Baker and www.gavinbaker.com and an alumnus of the University of Florida


gavinbaker: meeting in 5


gavinbaker: ok, happy fun meeting time!


gavinbaker: _sj_ danjared e-star jibot mark007 paulproteus poningru skyfaller_


skyfaller_ is now known as skyfaller


e-star: yes?


gavinbaker: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-08-16


e-star: wait, i thought the meeting was tomorrow?


e-star: i'm in singapore and it's 8am


skyfaller: e-star: nope, it's now :)


gavinbaker: sorry


e-star: oh i see


e-star: yes, it's thursday


gavinbaker: how's singapore?


e-star: (i think it's friday here)


e-star: i literally just arrived


e-star: it's rainy


gavinbaker: if it's 8am there, it should be friday :)


gavinbaker: e-star, don't spit on the sidewalk or anything


gavinbaker: they're pretty strict there, from what i hear.


e-star: yeah yeah


gavinbaker: ;)


gavinbaker: so is anybody here for happy fun meeting time?


skyfaller: yeah


skyfaller: let's do this thing


gavinbaker hopes there's somebody else


skyfaller: wishful thinking, gavin


skyfaller: alright, first item on the agenda is finishing up RC1


skyfaller: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Bylaws#Section_1.1._Board_Elections ... lines 3, 4, and 5


gavinbaker: boo


gavinbaker: i guess there might be stragglers


gavinbaker: i hope so


gavinbaker: skyfaller: will you paste line 3 here?


skyfaller: Elections must be called when the number of board members threatens to drop below the minimum required, so as to fill any empty seats. Otherwise, elections will be called once a year in the spring for all seats on the board.


gavinbaker: oh


gavinbaker: joy


gavinbaker: so first, what's the "minimum required"?


gavinbaker: well, i think we agreed in principle (last mtg) that, when there are vacancies, you have elections


gavinbaker: so we can replace this section with that, and not re-hash old ground


gavinbaker: we have to decide a procedure for doing that though


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skyfallert: hm


skyfallert: yay, I'm not lagging out now


skyfallert: I don't know why my IRC is so unreliable


skyfallert: anyway


skyfallert: what procedure? for deciding when there is a vacancy?


gavinbaker: no


gavinbaker: it's pretty easy to know when there's a vacancy


gavinbaker: the procedure for what happens when there is a vacancy


gavinbaker: i.e. how you hold elections in that case


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jibot: mllerustad is a music nerd and Karen Rustad and a student at Scripps College in Claremont, CA and on FreeCulture.org's board


skyfallert: so what has to be different from the normal election cycle, aside from the fact that there is (hopefully) only one vacancy?


gavinbaker: what's the timeline?


skyfallert: hm...


skyfallert: what's our timeline for a normal election?


skyfallert: did we spell that out in the bylaws?


gavinbaker: yeah


gavinbaker: let's see


gavinbaker: oh fuck, we have like, 3 meetings we haven't folded into RC2


gavinbaker: goodness knows where we decided that


skyfallert: :/


gavinbaker: oh


gavinbaker: we already covered this on http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-08-08/log


gavinbaker: "If a board member resigns, nominations and elections for an interim board member will be conducted in the same fashion as for normal elections as described in V.1.1."


skyfallert: oh, good


gavinbaker: let's see what it says in V.1.1, though


gavinbaker: to make sure that makes sense


skyfaller: .... I'm not sure where to find that text


gavinbaker: this is really confusing


gavinbaker: i'm concerned at the fact we don't have notes from all these meetings


gavinbaker: just the logs


gavinbaker: so we have to comb through them to try to figure out what was decided :-/


skyfaller: yeah, it is bad that we don't take real-time minutes


skyfaller: mllerustad took some minutes, but she hasn't had the time to do much with them


skyfaller: and we also stopped taking minutes after she left last time I think


gavinbaker: oh i'm finding it


skyfaller: ORLY?


gavinbaker: oh ok


gavinbaker: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-08-08/log


gavinbaker: oh wait, maybe not


gavinbaker: that's for amendments


gavinbaker: --did we fail to decide this?


skyfaller: the timeline?


skyfaller: I think we were just going to leave it to the board or something


gavinbaker: that doesn't make sense


gavinbaker: at all


gavinbaker: "yeah we'll just have nominations open for 2 seconds"


gavinbaker: "oh whoops looks like nobody was nominated"


gavinbaker: "guess we'll just be re-elected huh"


skyfaller: yeah...


skyfaller: hm.


gavinbaker: i swear we decided it, but i can't find where...


gavinbaker: we decided a timeline for amendments


gavinbaker: well, let's pretend we didn't decide it


gavinbaker: what would be a reasonable timeline?


gavinbaker: the process looks like this


gavinbaker: 1) there's a vacancy


gavinbaker: 2) call for nominations


gavinbaker: 3) nominations close


gavinbaker: 4) voting begins


gavinbaker: 5) voting closes


gavinbaker: = you've elected an interim board member


gavinbaker: so what's the timeline look like for that


gavinbaker: keeping in mind that the whole board will be up for elected no later than 12 months from any given date


gavinbaker: buh, this sucks, but it'd suck more if we gave up and had to come back to this


skyfaller: I have no idea what a reasonable timeline is


gavinbaker: well, according to the timeline in http://freeculture.org/blog/2007/07/21/fco-gets-organized-this-summer/


gavinbaker: nominations would be open for a week


gavinbaker: followed by a week for voting


gavinbaker: i think that was just the first time, to avoid running into the schoolyear


gavinbaker: it's a pretty breakneck pace and i think it shouldn't be that short a time


gavinbaker: but it shouldn't be terribly long, because it's an interim position, so a.) you want to get it filled and b.) it's only temporary anyway


skyfaller: so double that?


skyfaller: 2 weeks for each?


gavinbaker: i think that wouldn't be crazy


gavinbaker: that means you go a month with a vacancy


gavinbaker: which isn't too terrible


skyfaller: yeah


skyfaller: let's do that


gavinbaker: especially since there could only be 2 meetings of the board in that time


gavinbaker: and hopefully the board doesn't choose to meet that frequently


skyfaller: yeah


skyfaller: shall we resolve this?


skyfaller: if it's retarded, people with real world experience can amend it ^_^


gavinbaker: yeah, i'd rather have a dumb decision than no decision, and those seem to be the options


gavinbaker: dumb decisions can always be fixed later


gavinbaker: so here's the existing language: "Elections must be called when the number of board members threatens to drop below the minimum required, so as to fill any empty seats. Otherwise, elections will be called once a year in the spring for all seats on the board."


gavinbaker: we can scrap the 2nd sentence because we're assuming that we wrote in a timeline for normal board elections (though i can't find it atm)


K`Tetch: not going to 50-50 cycle?


gavinbaker: (and if we didn't actually do that, we'll notice later and fix it then)


gavinbaker: K`Tetch: sorry wha?


K`Tetch: nothing, ignore me, getting confused


skyfaller: didn't we change the first sentence too?


skyfaller: to say something more like "an election will be called whenever someone resigns, or whenever there is a vacancy?"


gavinbaker: skyfaller: yeah that's what i'm getting at


gavinbaker: so we replace the first sentence with what we just RESOLVED


gavinbaker: In the event of a vacancy on the board, the Coordinator shall, within 72 hours, announce the vacancy and open nominations for an interim board member to fill the vacant seat.


gavinbaker: well, hang on


e-star: oops i fell asleep


gavinbaker: lulz


e-star: does someone want to give me a one-sentence update or should i scroll back?


gavinbaker: are we setting this AT 14 days, or NO LESS THAN 14 days?


gavinbaker: e-star: uh we're trying to figure out the timeline to fill vacancies on the board


gavinbaker: and failed to remember if we set a timeline for regular board elections


gavinbaker: other than that they happen annually


e-star: aha, i just scrolled back


e-star: haha


skyfaller: we should probably put similar language in the regular board elections section


gavinbaker: so... <gavinbaker> are we setting this AT 14 days each, or NO LESS THAN 14 days each?


gavinbaker: skyfaller: i was going to assume that we already decided that, but it's not a very safe assumption


skyfaller: well, you had the concern that the board would be like, "oh, hey, nominations were open for 2 seconds, too bad people we don't support didn't get nominated"


skyfaller: so we probably should set a minimum time as well as a max


skyfaller: we could make the two times the same


gavinbaker: yes, which is the same as saying "=14"


gavinbaker: we could also say "> or =14"


gavinbaker: that's my question, which


skyfaller: I dunno, wanna make the minimum 7 days, and the max 14 days?


skyfaller: enh


gavinbaker: no, i think 7 is too little


gavinbaker: we just went over that


skyfaller: whatever, just set it at 14 days exactly


skyfaller: seems simple that way


gavinbaker: i think i favor "> or = 14"


gavinbaker: because that way, if it's a dumb choice


skyfaller: OK, fine with e


gavinbaker: then it can just be made longer


skyfaller: *fine with me


gavinbaker: without having to amend the bylaws (or break them)


skyfaller: I don't know if it's fine with E


gavinbaker: well, it's 9 am in singapore, so i'm not going to ask too much of her


gavinbaker: as they say to do unto others as you would have done unto you


gavinbaker: and if i was in singapore at 9 am, i'd want to be left tf alone


skyfaller: heh


skyfaller: ok, so RESOLVED: nominations will be open for 14 days, polls will be open for 14 days


skyfaller: +1 I say


gavinbaker: at least?


skyfaller: right


skyfaller: my bad


skyfaller: *at least 14 days*


skyfaller: I lose


gavinbaker: so, RESOLVED


gavinbaker: In the event of a vacancy on the board, the Coordinator shall, within 72 hours, announce the vacancy and open nominations for an interim board member to fill the vacant seat.


gavinbaker: Nominations will be open for no less than 14 days. Following nominations, voting will be open for no less than 14 days.


skyfaller: sounds good


skyfaller: +1


gavinbaker: Voting procedures shall be the same as for regular board elections. The winner shall immediately become an interim board member, with all the rights and responsibilities of a board member.


gavinbaker: Seats of the board which are vacated and filled by interim board members shall be subject to the same election cycle to the regular board elections.


skyfaller: sounds good


gavinbaker: If the vacancy occurs 31 days or less prior to a regular board election, the seat shall remain vacant until the regular election.


skyfaller: ah, a good addition


gavinbaker: that's all i got


skyfaller: ok, so are we done with that "line"?


skyfallert: line 3?


skyfallert: can we move on to 4?


e-star: guys


contra (n=blm@pool-71-248-253-200.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net) has joined channel #freeculture


e-star: sorry, i missed this interim board member thing


e-star: or is that just the person we'll elect until the next elections?


e-star: i was thinking it's someone to fill the seat until the election is decided


e-star: heh


skyfaller: just the person we'll elect


skyfaller: nobody is unelected


e-star: gotcha


contra: how are the bylaws going [he asks nonchalantly]?


gavinbaker: contra: ...swimmingly


gavinbaker: yeah, on to the next line


gavinbaker: "Only current members of chapters, alumni of chapters, or people who have previously served the Organization in other capacities for at least a year shall be eligible to stand for election to the board. There is no limit to the number of terms that a person may serve on the board."


gavinbaker: before we deal with the first sentence there, is everybody ok with the second sentence?


gavinbaker: i'm happy with it


gavinbaker: contra, skyfaller, e-star, anybody


contra: sounds OK to me, but I just got here, so I don't count :)


gavinbaker: contra: you're here, that counts for something


contra: I'm curious, though, about how it relates to the first sentence. Is that one year the previous year, or "some time in the past" the person had to be active?


contra: because it sort of leads to problems with a person who was distantly active still staying on the board


e-star: yeah i guess if we see the board remains the same for a while, we might want to amend it


e-star: but for now it should be okay


gavinbaker: dictators-for-life, heh


gavinbaker: if people don't like they'll vote the bums out


gavinbaker: i'm not sure who would choose this anyway


gavinbaker: but it sounds like the second sentence is fine


e-star: i'm about to pass out again


e-star: going on little to no sleep for 36 hrs


gavinbaker: e-star, heh, dont blame you


gavinbaker: on the first half, what if we just change it to the same criterion for nominating, "Members of any chapter (as defined by the chapter) and current members of the board of directors"?


gavinbaker: seems like the people who can nominate should be the same people who can stand for election


contra: so only members of chapters can run?


gavinbaker: contra: i think the idea of that definition was that a chapter could define its alumni to be members


gavinbaker: which i, personally, think is dumb, but that's what we decided


contra: well, an alumni is still considered "part" of the university, so I guess it makes sense in its way


contra: it kind of prevents anyone from being abandoned


gavinbaker: or, i suppose, a faculty member, or staff, or random hoboes


contra: but under that idea, yes, I think we should change it to be only members of chapters


gavinbaker: but anyway, that's what we decided, and it seems to only make sense to be consistent


contra: since alums can be members of chapters


gavinbaker: "people who have previously served the Organization in other capacities for at least a year" is very problematic, because wtf does that mean?


gavinbaker: the lady who does my dry cleaning?


gavinbaker: it expresses very poorly the idea, and the idea is problematic itself, so i want to get rid of it


skyfaller: I agree


contra: I agree, I was going to comment on that until you asked to discuss only the second sentence


gavinbaker: that would leave us with "current chapter members and alumni", which we could use, but we already have this pre-existing definition of chapter members


contra: if it's going to be vague, it should be vague for a reason, and I think it's fine to limit members to current students and alums


gavinbaker: which can be functionally equivalent, so we may as well be consistent


contra: (alums implicit in "chapter members")


mllerustad: gavinbaker: Not necessarily, though...


mllerustad: What if you're an alum from a chapter that doesn't define alums as members?


gavinbaker: mllerustad: well, that'd be consistent, in that you couldn't nominate, either


gavinbaker: you'd be excluded from both


mllerustad: Should you not be allowed from running (assuming someone else thought you were good enough to nominate)?


gavinbaker: if you went somewhere else, you'd be included in both


gavinbaker: why would it make sense to not be allowed to nominate yourself, but to be elected?


contra: I think the idea is that you should still have some chapter affiliation to be a major part of the organization?


mllerustad: It means that any board members that happened to be from a chapter that didn't count alumni would be forced out when they graduated, despite previous service and so forth...


contra: and if the chapter doesn't want you (for some odd reason), then you can't really be involved in a "student" movement?


mllerustad: Seems like it would lead to very high turnover.


skyfaller: wait


gavinbaker: i'll say again, i think the way we dealt with nominations is dumb, but it seems to make sense to be consistent


mllerustad: Especially since most people only get active at that level their junior or senior year.


skyfaller: but we left in the current board members provision, no?


mllerustad: are we?


skyfaller: so current board members can run again?


gavinbaker: skyfaller: right, current board members would be allowed to stand for election


gavinbaker: regardless of the chapter member bit


mllerustad: But once they lose, they're gone for good.


gavinbaker: so the concern about turnover is moot... right, unless they lose or don't run again


contra: frankly, I think the turnover will be pretty quick anyway.


contra: burnout and nerds, you know how it is :)


mllerustad: Heh.


gavinbaker: yeah


gavinbaker: i was thinking, FC.o volunteers are like pancakes:


gavinbaker: take them out of the ban before they burn


gavinbaker: *pan


Signoff: e-star ()


mllerustad: Mm.


contra: that's why I think when a member burns out, he should be expected to set himself on fire in DC.


gavinbaker: cue paulproteus to say something about foot


contra: "Another freedom fighter burns out."


gavinbaker: *food


contra: we'd make some progress


gavinbaker: contra: or kamikaze @ RIAA


mllerustad: *FC.o average life expectancy drops to 23*


gavinbaker: and i'll stop making jokes about terrorism


contra: I don't want to hurt anyone else, I'm a pacifist. :)


contra: but setting myself on fire, sure


gavinbaker: so are we using the same definition from nominations?


mllerustad: I'm not sure I think it's the best, but I'll run with it.


mllerustad: We can fix it later if it's necessary.


gavinbaker: frankly, i think this should be amended anyway, so there's no difference between fixing 2 sectons and fixing 1


contra: I think it's fine to limit to members of chapters and current board members


contra: it's logical


skyfaller: it sounds good to me


conley: School starts on monday. How do I get access to vt.freeculture.org so I can mess with the homepage


gavinbaker: conley, set paulproteus on fire


conley sets paulproteus on fire


gavinbaker: so, RESOLVED


contra: oh, yeah


gavinbaker: line 4 = Members of any chapter (as defined by the chapter) and current members of the board of directors shall be eligible to stand for election to the board. There is no limit to the number of terms that a person may serve on the board.


contra: skyfaller: Swat's blog!


gavinbaker: conley: if that doesn't work, set skyfaller on fire


gavinbaker: and just keep going 'til it works


contra: he's already burnt to a crisp...


conley sets skyfaller on fire


conley: I'm running out of matches


conley: Got to go


gavinbaker: d'oh


conley runs out to buy more matches


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gavinbaker: +1 for line 4? yes?


contra: +1


mllerustad: +1


gavinbaker: woohoo


skyfaller: +1


contra: how much is left?


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skyfaller: contra, conley... we'll have to meet sometime to talk web stuff... would you be available this Sunday?


skyfaller: PM me


contra: hmm


contra: Sunday night, maybe?


contra: Sunday afternoons I feed homeless people, hence I've missed almost every IRC meeting


skyfaller: (PM me, don't talk in the channel)


skyfaller: (there's a bylaws meeting on now)


gavinbaker: ok... line 5 -- last line!


gavinbaker: The executive director is responsible for running the election.


gavinbaker: so ED = Coordinator


skyfaller: good start


mllerustad: The Coordinator is responsible for announcing the election and finding a third party to run it?


gavinbaker: i think we can add "per V.2." since we spelled out the procedure there


gavinbaker: iirc


skyfaller: mllerustad: that sounds like a better idea...


gavinbaker: which i can't double-check, because we haven't rolled those changes into RC2


gavinbaker: skyfaller, mllerustad, we already decided that, i THINK


skyfaller: oh, what did we decide?


gavinbaker: it SHOULD be in the Coordinator section


mllerustad: Yeah, I thought we did too.


mllerustad: But I couldn't remember for sure.


gavinbaker: but those changes haven't been rolled into RC2


gavinbaker: mllerustad: it'd be super helpful if you could add the notes that you have to wiki, and even implement them in RC2


mllerustad: gavinbaker: I've added everything I took notes on.


mllerustad: The problem is there are a lot of meetings/parts of meetings that I don't have notes for, and that no one else took notes for.


gavinbaker: oh, scheisse.


gavinbaker: life--


contra: wait, so somewhere running the election is detailed, because "responsible for running the election" is too vague


contra: ?


mllerustad: I went through a couple logs and added a few changes, but most of the unnoted meetings' resolutions aren't merged yet.


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gavinbaker: contra: yeah we specified this


gavinbaker: it's just... not easily findable


gavinbaker: it's in the logs


gavinbaker: but where is the question


mllerustad wonders why no one else took notes


contra: gavinbaker: I'm satisfied, then.


contra: I trust the wisdom of the IRC crowd


mllerustad: :)


gavinbaker: i don't like the fact that i can't find it in the logs, though


mllerustad: Can we just rewrite language for what we want the Coordinator to do, and merge it/cross-reference it later?


mllerustad: Then we *know* it's in the logs, and agreed upon.


gavinbaker: oh here it is, i think


mllerustad: Oh?


gavinbaker: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-08-08/log


gavinbaker: "The Coordinator is responsible for announcing elections for the board of directors and determining a deadline for voting. The Coordinator will appoint an external third party to tally votes and submit results to the board and the Coordinator; the Coordinator shall notify the Organization of the results."


gavinbaker: so we can just include by reference


skyfaller: mllerustad: wanna take minutes for the rest of this meeting? ;-)


mllerustad: :p


mllerustad: I wasn't here for most of it...


contra: good


skyfaller: you can just start taking minutes now, and we can go back to the log later


skyfaller: but anyway


skyfaller: gavinbaker: um, doesn't that conflict with what we just decided for interim elections?


skyfaller: "determining a deadline for voting"


skyfaller: well, I guess it doesn't


skyfaller: the Coordinator's decision just has to be >14 days


gavinbaker: skyfaller: no


gavinbaker: the Coordinator determines the *deadline*


gavinbaker: that's the end date


skyfaller: buh?


gavinbaker: so you count backwards from there, for the rest of the timeline


skyfaller: wait


gavinbaker: i.e. if voting is open for 14 days


gavinbaker: the Coordinator picks the END date


gavinbaker: so you subtract 14 to determine when voting begins


gavinbaker: math ftw


skyfaller: OK, let me start over


skyfaller: we've said that nominations must last at least 14 days


skyfaller: and the polls must be open for at least 14 days, right?


gavinbaker: yes


gavinbaker: the Coordinator can't choose an end date that conflicts with the rest of the timeline


skyfaller: so the coordinator decides how long it lasts beyond 14 days


gavinbaker: and frankly i think the part about the Coordinator was intended for the regular elections


gavinbaker: which happen roughly annually


gavinbaker: but the Coordinator is free to choose the exact date


gavinbaker: per the rest of the timeline we decided for regular elections


skyfaller: ok


gavinbaker: which we probably didn't actually decide, but we're believing that we decided it for the time being


skyfaller: ...


gavinbaker: until we discover we didn't, because we REALLY can't find it in the log, and we have to actually decide it


skyfaller: I think since we're thinking about it now, we should try to make the two places consistent?


gavinbaker: what if we already decided and we're just dumb and can't find it?


gavinbaker: that would be silly


skyfaller: where was this other language from?


skyfaller: when were we talking about it, if not board elections?


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gavinbaker: well we've discussed board elections previously


gavinbaker: e.g. last meeting


skyfaller: OK, so it would have to be from last meeting?


gavinbaker: well


gavinbaker: we might have discussed it previously


gavinbaker: who knows?


skyfaller: .... actually, we must have discussed it previously


gavinbaker: i'm content to continue pretend we decided it, until we look and see


skyfaller: if that language is from the 8th


gavinbaker: if we find that we DIDN'T, then we'll fix it then


gavinbaker: skyfaller: that's no guarantee it happened


gavinbaker: just because it would have been logical to decide it then


gavinbaker: it would have LOGICAL for like, almost all of this stuff to have been in the first draft


gavinbaker: if you've been at these meetings you know that logic has been a force in weak operation


skyfaller: I really don't think we decided it, and we should make some decision now while we're thinking about it, so that we don't have to have yet another meeting b/c we never decided this


skyfaller: I really don't remember ever setting a specific timeline for elections


gavinbaker: skyfaller: i think we're going to need another meeting anyway


skyfaller: we were just leaving it up to the Coordinator, it seems to me from the minutes


skyfaller: ... I mean another meeting about RC1 :P


gavinbaker: well, we're clearly going to need at least 1 more meeting before RC2 goes out for voting


gavinbaker: if only to check that all these changes were rolled in properly


skyfaller: OK, but can't we talk about this now? I'm 90% sure that we we never set any sort of timeline for elections


gavinbaker: and as a final check that there wasn't something that was missed


gavinbaker: skyfaller: why not just wait until we're 100% sure? we have to wait anyway


gavinbaker: and we can decide stuff we're sure about now


skyfaller: I dunno, it just seems dumb to come back to this later after we've stopped thinking about it


skyfaller: but ok


skyfaller: so are we resolving anything?


gavinbaker: RESOLVED: "The Coordinator is responsible for running the election, per V.2."


skyfaller: I really really really don't think we set a timeline, and we just left the whole decision in the hands of the Coordinator, for the record


gavinbaker: skyfaller: i don't think we ever talked about it, and it shouldn't be left in the hands of the Coordinator, but we'll wait until we review the logs and find out


gavinbaker: resolution time ^^ mllerustad, contra, whoever


contra: +1


contra: I trust the coordinator


skyfaller: I don't really know what that means, so I'm not sure how we can resolve that


contra: after all, he IS the Executive Director


contra: it means that at least somewhere election protocol is outlined, and that protocol can always be amended.


contra: ?


contra: (? = perhaps)


gavinbaker: skyfaller: anything else that needs to be decided will be decided later


gavinbaker: if it hasn't been already


mllerustad: isn't this "later">


mllerustad: ?


gavinbaker: mllerustad: later = when we've actually gone through the logs and we're sure


mllerustad: Mm.


skyfaller: I still think it would be better to make some decision now... we can just decide "this overrules previous decisions"


skyfaller: or "previous decisions overrule this decision"


skyfaller: the former probably makes more sense


gavinbaker: skyfaller: the question is, is there something better we should be doing now?


gavinbaker: there are all these comments to go through


gavinbaker: and these old RESOLUTIONS that were never implemented


skyfaller: ok


skyfaller: I don't like leaving things unfinished, b/c I know we'll just have to do it later


skyfaller: but let's move on


gavinbaker: and all the RESOLUTIONS in the logs that never implemented


skyfaller: what's next?


gavinbaker: if we RESOLVE this then we're done with the first run through RC1


skyfaller: fine +1 to referring to a part of the bylaws that may or may not be complete


contra gets the champagne


skyfaller: and going back and looking more carefully later


contra: are we SURE that something was resolved for V.2?


skyfaller: no


skyfaller: we're not


contra: wonderful...


skyfaller: but I guess we're moving on anyway


gavinbaker: RESOLVED: make sure we have a timeline for regular board elections


gavinbaker: k?


contra: +1


contra: :)


skyfaller: +1


skyfaller: moving on


gavinbaker: so, champagne time


gavinbaker: ok, champagne's over


skyfaller: are we gonna end the meeting?


skyfaller: or move on to the comments?


gavinbaker: well, we have to review the comments, somehow


gavinbaker: and there's the work of implementing what we've RESOLVED


gavinbaker: including digging through the logs


gavinbaker: and writing implementations where we decided on a principle but not on the language


gavinbaker: making sure everything is rolled in


gavinbaker: then a final check


gavinbaker: then it goes out for votes


gavinbaker: how do we want to do that stuff


gavinbaker: ?


skyfaller: more meetings? :/


skyfaller: I think the comments probably require meetings


gavinbaker: i don't think meetings are the right way to go through the logs and write implementations


skyfaller: merging stuff that we've already resolved can be done on our own time, if we actually do it


gavinbaker: we need a meeting to discuss the comments


gavinbaker: and a meeting for the final check


skyfaller: agreed


gavinbaker: skyfaller: yeah, to that end, i want to assign things


contra: comments?


gavinbaker: rather than just say "hope someone does this"


skyfaller: well, Karen has been merging a lot of the resolutions so far... mllerustad, how do you think this should work?


gavinbaker: at the least we'll need to schedule another meeting


gavinbaker: and i'm afk for the next week so don't worry about my availability (but also don't expect me to be there)


skyfaller: I'm kind of running out of time too :(


skyfaller: I won't be able to do any of this stuff once my school starts


contra: you should crowdsource it


contra: (bad joke)


skyfaller: I can run one more meeting on Sunday or Monday to cover the comments


gavinbaker: the comments are massive


gavinbaker: unless the meeting blazes it'll take like, hours and hours


skyfaller: I guess some of the comments will get short shrift, then


skyfaller: b/c we need bylaws, and I don't think they'll get done if we don't get a draft out soon


skyfaller: I don't think anyone will have time for them once school starts


contra: what exactly are the comments?


skyfaller: my classes start on Weds


gavinbaker: contra: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Talk:Bylaws


contra: uh-oh


gavinbaker: some of those are like, important


gavinbaker: others are not


contra: most of those would require quite a bit of re-writing of the bylaws ;-)


gavinbaker: contra: yeah


contra: this is an RC


gavinbaker: i expect most of them to get overruled


contra: you can't re-write anything


gavinbaker: you can re-write anything, but you shouldn't re-write everything


gavinbaker: besides, we've discussed everything in the bylaws


contra: like, I'm serious. You need to ratify the bylaws generally as-is, and then stuff can be amended after the elections


skyfaller: contra: I generally agree


gavinbaker: if we've come to decisions contrary to a comment, we'd overrule the comment


gavinbaker: contra: well some of the comments are like, REALLY important


gavinbaker: like what happens if there's no Coordinator


skyfaller: but yeah, there are some clear exceptions that have to be made


contra: why wasn't this already incorporated? Not to criticize the (honestly) fine job you guys are doing, but you basically set yourself up for two re-writes


skyfaller: b/c we came up with some stuff after RC 1 was released


skyfaller: sadly


gavinbaker: contra: nobody was paying attention until we released RC1


gavinbaker: RC1 really wasn't ready to be a release candidate


gavinbaker: but a.) we thought it was


gavinbaker: and b.) we needed to get the ball rolling anyway


gavinbaker: now the ball's rolling, it's taken awhile, but there's no faster way


contra: well


contra: good luck, but I would pretty much ignore most of the comments at this stage


gavinbaker: contra: i agree


gavinbaker: i'm not sure how that will work with the "consensus" model


gavinbaker: but i guess if nobody who shows up wants to waste time


gavinbaker: then it will work well


skyfaller: alright, so Karen and I will work on merging in the Resolutions


skyfaller: well, I guess I need to ask Karen if she's still up for that (mllerustad?), but I assume that she is


skyfaller: and let's have a meeting to discuss the comments on Monday night


gavinbaker: what's the schedule


gavinbaker: to get this to a vote


gavinbaker: i see at least 2 more meetings


gavinbaker: at least 1 to discuss the comments


gavinbaker: and 1 to review the changes and a final check


gavinbaker really wishes we'd been documenting this thoroughly on the wiki as we went along


contra: can we resolve to have an almost-complete RC by September 1 (when semesters are going to be starting)? I mean, even if we don't consider the bylaws "done", voting needs to take place soon after the semester starts


gavinbaker: i guess nobody thought this would last like, 3 weeks


skyfaller: Alright, meeting to discuss the comments on Monday night


gavinbaker: oh god, voting has to start by at least sept. 1


gavinbaker: any later is way too late


contra: when is chapter registration going to start?


skyfaller: all resolutions are merged by Weds


gavinbaker: contra: it can start whenever


gavinbaker: somebody just has to start it


skyfaller: it should really start now


gavinbaker: i don't know who decides that


contra: it should


contra: whoever runs the web form (or whatever) for it?


gavinbaker: goddamn i hate this organization (or lack of)


contra: (P.S. I can't attend Monday's meeting. Homeless people again. It's a Sunday & Monday thing.)


contra: gavinbaker: fine, then you can't run for the board!


contra: :P


skyfaller: contra: that's fine, we'll look at your comments at least a little bit ;-)


gavinbaker: contra: thanks for that reprieve!


skyfaller: All resolutions merged by Tuesday night, actually


contra: consensus is worth considering. It lends itself to an organization with high burnout, because it basically says that if you show up, you matter, otherwise you don't.


contra: (but not in a threatening way)


skyfaller: I won't be doing anything significant on the bylaws from Weds onwards


gavinbaker: contra: the goal should really be to prevent & triage burnout


contra: skyfaller: good luck with classes, by the way


contra: gavinbaker: well, burnout occurs in every organization. If you stay in too long, you get corrupt anyway


skyfaller: So we'll schedule a final meeting to clean up and release RC2 for ratification after that... let's say two weekends from now


contra: I won't preach about consensus much now. It would require a significant re-write of the bylaws. Though I admit doing it before the bylaws get ratified is the right time for such an ideological decision


gavinbaker: skyfaller: i was going to say, i think 26 Aug is a reasonable date to aim for release


skyfaller: assume the


contra: so two weekends from now the RC gets sent to chapters for ratification?


skyfaller: bylaws are ratified by the next weekend, Sept 1st


skyfaller: then we start nominations, and then elections


contra: good deadline.


gavinbaker: skyfaller: i suppose that means that 26 Aug is the date of the doublecheck meeting?


contra: +1?


skyfaller: yeah


skyfaller: and anyone who wants to make significant changes at that point will get stabbed in the face


contra: set on fire


contra: we'd really shake things up


mllerustad: sorry, skyfaller, yeah I'll help merge things.


skyfaller: contra: are your feelings on consensus reflected in your comments?


skyfaller: on the bylaws?


contra: OK, I have to head out again. Good luck, all.


gavinbaker: skyfaller: yeah they're there


gavinbaker: contra: cya


contra: uh, I think I basically said that they should be looked into


skyfaller: ok, then don't worry about it


skyfaller: it'll be looked into


gavinbaker: so... i'm fine with this schedule, though i wish it could be sooner, but i don't think it can be.


contra: I'm pretty cynical about my ability to convince people on ideological matters


gavinbaker: if we're going to use this schedule, we should firmly RESOLVE it now


gavinbaker: and immediately announce it


skyfaller: alright, let's resolve it


gavinbaker: & all agree to stick to it


gavinbaker: no matter what


gavinbaker: i.e. we will make it work


contra: but in short, consensus voting basically means everyone present has to agree, or it can't be resolved


skyfaller: RESOLVED: Meeting Monday night (8pm EDT?) to walk through the comments


contra: ok, I may be able to come late to the meeting.


gavinbaker: skyfaller: and the doublecheck meeting on 26 Aug?


contra: goodnight


Signoff: contra ()


skyfaller: RESOLVED: Meeting Sunday August 26th to doublecheck the bylaws and catch silly errors... no major changes to be made then


gavinbaker: that means you HAVE to finish the comments on the 20th


gavinbaker: or else schedule follow-up meetings before the 26th


gavinbaker: i.e. do NOT reschedule the 26th


skyfaller: I won't be scheduling follow-up meetings, I intend to finish the comments on the 20th


gavinbaker: nothing comes after the 26th -- it's finito


skyfaller: RESOLVED: The vast majority of our chapters should be registered by August 26th, so that they can ratify the bylaws


skyfaller: RESOLVED: Deadline for ratification of the bylaws is Sept 1st.


gavinbaker: well, deadline for voting


gavinbaker: right so when is rereg opening?


skyfaller: erm, Sunday Sept 2nd


skyfaller: gavinbaker: ASAP, I guess as soon as I can get around to it :/


gavinbaker: let's say midnight Sept 2, for clarity


gavinbaker: we can go midnight PDT if we want to be nice


gavinbaker: skyfaller: oh is it "decided" then to open re-reg?


skyfaller: gavinbaker: fine, midnight PDT Sunday Sept 2nd


gavinbaker: for the record the only thing necessary to open re-reg is to email a link to chapters


gavinbaker: and say "re-register if you want shit"


skyfaller: gavinbaker: yeah, I haven't looked at it yes, but I'll look at the form tonight and mail out the links once everything is to my satisfaction


skyfaller: RESOLVED: Nominations for the board will start once the bylaws are ratified, i.e. midnight Sunday Sept 2nd


gavinbaker: skyfaller: it will be to your satisfaction, because it's Done.


gavinbaker: skyfaller: well


gavinbaker: you don't know that that the bylaws will be ratified


gavinbaker: we should say like, the results will be announced by midnight the 3rd


skyfaller: gavinbaker: some of the fields for entering in information may need tweaking, but I'm sure the system is fine


gavinbaker: at which time, if they've been ratified, nominations will open


skyfaller: sure


gavinbaker: skyfaller: just don't fucking tweak it, and release it...


skyfaller: gavinbaker: well, I need to make sure that it's giving me everything I need for shipping etc.


skyfaller: but I'm sure that the system as a whole is fine


gavinbaker: skyfaller: it does


skyfaller: RESOLVED: Nominations will close one week after they start, and the polls will then open, also for one week. At that point we'll have a new board. by this schedule, that gives us a new board by Sept 16th or so


gavinbaker: this is so pwnt


gavinbaker: but there's no better way


gavinbaker: actually


skyfaller: that's a little late, but that should be early enough for them to give us a good start to the new school year


gavinbaker: by that point we're in the school year


gavinbaker: you should make nom & voting longer


gavinbaker: because you know people won't be paying attention


gavinbaker: so give them more time to participate


gavinbaker: 2 or 3 weeks for each


skyfaller: well, who will be running the org until then? we need a board ASAP


skyfaller: otherwise everything falls on my shoulders


skyfaller: I can just walk away, but then none of this will get done


gavinbaker: skyfaller: just ship the stuff


gavinbaker: what else is there to do, that gets done currently?


gavinbaker: nothing, nothing else really gets done


skyfaller: you don't think that's problematic?


skyfaller: I think that if we heavily publicize the schedule, people can be prepared for the nominations and elections


skyfaller: and you won't need to drag them out that long


gavinbaker: i still don't think either should be less than 2 weeks


skyfaller: OK, fine, 2 weeeks


gavinbaker: what if a chapter wants to meet to talk about its vote?


gavinbaker: and they only meet biweekly?


skyfaller: that gives us a board by Sept 30th


skyfaller: two weeks for nominations, two weeks for elections


gavinbaker: yeah i think that's reasonable


gavinbaker: ugh i can so tired of this


gavinbaker: i hope you guys wrap this stuff up while i'm away


gavinbaker: because i've reached my limit of caring


Signoff: jli (Remote closed the connection)


skyfaller: gavinbaker: I hope that you can help manage these elections and stuff, b/c I'll be busy with law school :P


gavinbaker: what has to be managed?


skyfaller: my contributions will more or less come to a halt on Weds, so whatever needs to be done that nobody is doing :P


skyfaller: I don't know what that will be, the future is unpredictable


gavinbaker: i'm pretty much not interested in doing any more stuff like this


skyfaller: neither is anyone else, I'm betting


skyfaller: this is why we need a board ASAP


skyfaller: well, this will be interesting...


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gavinbaker: well


gavinbaker: i don't remember anything we just decided


gavinbaker: but i also no longer care, sadly


gavinbaker: so, um, good luck?


skyfaller: I guess this is where the whole process falls apart b/c nobody cares anymore :P


gavinbaker: that's why it has to finish soon


gavinbaker: before eveyrone commits seppuku


skyfaller: well, I just said what I'm taking responsibility for finishing


skyfaller: I'll deliver a bylaws draft by Weds


skyfaller: after merging in the resolutions + comments


skyfaller: everything after that is going to have to be in other people's hands


gavinbaker: well, and shipping stuff


gavinbaker: paulproteus said he'd make the election system work


skyfaller: that's good to hear


gavinbaker: if the schedule is publicized in advance, then stuff should just sort of happen


skyfaller: well, I was specifically referring to bylaws + elections stuff


gavinbaker: i know it won't but i can always hope


skyfaller: things don't just happen, someone makes them happen


skyfaller: if the deadline for ratifications passes, and nobody counts the votes and announces the result, then the deadline is a failure


skyfaller: someone is going to have to do that


skyfaller: and I don't plan on it being me


skyfaller: I'll start to get violent at that point


skyfaller: so if it's not you, and it's not me, then it's... who? the remaining ghost board members?


skyfaller: things start getting fuzzy


skyfaller: I'm not very happy about this process lasting into the school year


Scudmissile (n=Scudmiss@74-137-222-218.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined channel #freeculture


jibot: Scudmissile is Andy at the University of Evansville, Indiana. He is majoring in Internet Technology and is passionate about music and the presentation of information.


Scudmissil: oh, jibot is back


skyfaller: hooray for jibot!


Scudmissil: yay


skyfaller: well, I guess that's it


ScudmissilH 0 n=Scudmiss@74-137-222-218.dhcp.insightbb.com Andy


jli H 0 i=jli@gateway/tor/x-423de2fef86cbaa0 Jli


e-star H 0 n=e-star@61.8.222.2 elizabeth


tannewt H 0 n=scott@gentoo/developer/tannewt Unknown


mllerustadH 0 n=mllerust@c-75-73-208-193.hsd1.mn.comcast.net Karen Rustad


mindspillaH 0 n=kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001 kat


skyfallertH 0 i=[U2FsdGV@centaur.acm.jhu.edu [458fb33a] CGI:IRC User


gavinbakerH 0 n=gavin@c-69-143-179-58.hsd1.va.comcast.net Gavin Baker


ryanfaermaH 0 n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net Ryan Faerman


Yaco2 H 0 n=Yaco2@201.255.252.202 Yaco2


Omnifrog H 0 n=Omnifrog@c-68-60-206-179.hsd1.tn.comcast.net Omnifrog


peabo H 0 n=peabo@c-24-147-25-140.hsd1.ma.comcast.net Peter Olson


Lam_ H 0 n=Lam@246-200.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com Lam


mark007 H 0n=mark007@pool-71-101-200-240.tampfl.dsl-w.veriz Mark


ftobia H 0 n=chatzill@ool-18bb9b30.dyn.optonline.net Frank Tobia


skyfaller H 0 n=nelson@wikipedia/Skyfaller Nelson Pavlosky


danjared H 0 n=danjared@VINEGAR-POT.MIT.EDU D. Jared Dominguez


K`Tetch H 0n=ktetch@adsl-074-166-105-206.sip.asm.bellsouth. K`Tetch


johnsu01 H 0 n=user@fsf/staff/johnsu01 John Sullivan (http://www.wjsullivan.net)


klepas G 0 n=klepas@unaffiliated/klepas Pascal Klein


jibot H 0 i=andy@83.145.232.84 #JoiIto's bot


sahal G 0 i=hobo@outbound.silenceisdefeat.org can't get enough of that sugarcrisp...


_sj_ H 0 n=sj@wikipedia/sj sjk


[autonomy]H 0 n=autonomy@c-71-232-117-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net auto


paulproteuG 0 i=paulprot@29.145.221.202.bf.2iij.net Asheesh Laroia


poningru H 0 n=poningru@ip72-209-65-174.ga.at.cox.net Eldo Varghese


#freeculture End of /WHO list.


skyfaller: I'll post the new timeline to the blog and stuff


skyfaller: is Monday at 8pm EDT fine for everyone who is paying attention?


peabo: (back to keyboard) hey, did I miss anything good? :-)


skyfaller: not really


Signoff: jli (Remote closed the connection)


gavinbaker: i'm leaving the channel so i won't think about this anymore


gavinbaker: good luck!


gavinbaker: may the force be with you, etc.


Signoff: gavinbaker ("Leaving")


skyfallert: peabo: can you log this channel on Monday at 8pm EDT?


peabo: sure


skyfallert: alright


skyfallert: I guess that's all the attendance I'm going to get at this comments meeting


peabo: tonight log started at 5 PM, so I'll send that to Gavin as well


peabo: so there is another eeting (I should go read the log I guess :-)


skyfallert: so in the absence of other input, I declare the bylaws comments meeting to be on Monday at 8pm EDT


Scudmissil: ok


peabo: skyfaller, you're going to need a 15 seconds rule to go through the comments in one meetinmg!


Signoff: mark007 ("leaving")


peabo: well, I gotta go, see you Monday


Log file closed at: 8/16/07 11:22:15 PM

Meeting minutes and logs

2005-01-02 · 2005-01-03 · 2005-01-04 · 2005-01-06 · 2005-01-08 · 2005-01-12 · 2005-01-16 · 2005-01-19 · 2005-01-22 · 2005-01-23 · 2005-01-25 · 2005-01-26 · 2005-01-28 · 2005-01-30 · 2005-01-31 · 2005-02-02 · 2005-02-06 · 2005-02-13 · 2005-02-20 · 2005-02-27 · 2005-03-02 · 2005-03-06 · 2005-03-13 · 2005-03-16 · 2005-03-20 · 2005-03-23 · 2005-03-27 · 2005-03-30 · 2005-04-03 · 2005-04-10 · 2005-04-17 · 2005-04-24 · 2005-05-01 · 2005-05-08 · 2005-05-15 · 2005-05-22 · 2005-05-29 · 2005-06-01 · 2005-06-05 · 2005-06-06 · 2005-06-10 · 2005-06-12 · 2005-06-15 · 2005-06-15/Chatlog · 2005-06-19 · 2005-06-26 · 2005-07-03 · 2005-07-10 · 2005-07-17 · 2005-07-24 · 2005-07-31 · 2005-08-01 · 2005-08-07 · 2005-08-14 · 2005-08-17 · 2005-08-21 · 2005-08-28 · 2005-09-04 · 2005-09-11 · 2005-09-18 · 2005-09-24 · 2005-10-02 · 2005-10-09 · 2005-10-16 · 2005-10-23 · 2005-10-30 · 2005-11-06 · 2005-11-13 · 2005-11-16 · 2005-11-20 · 2005-11-27 · 2005-12-04 · 2005-12-11 · 2005-12-14 · 2005-12-18 · 2005-12-18 board meeting · 2005-12-21 · 2005-12-21 board meeting · 2005-12-23 board meeting · 2005-12-27 board meeting · 2006-01-01 · 2006-01-02 · 2006-01-07 · 2006-01-09 · 2006-01-22 · 2006-01-25 · 2006-02-12 · 2006-02-13 · 2006-03-02 · 2006-03-15 · 2006-03-22 · 2006-03-26 · 2006-03-29 · 2006-04-02 · 2006-04-09 · 2006-04-26 · 2006-05-07 · 2006-05-12 · 2006-05-14 · 2006-05-17 · 2006-08-16 · 2006-09-13 · 2006-09-17 · 2006-09-17/raw log · 2006-09-20 · 2006-09-20/raw log · 2006-09-27 · 2006-10-18 · 2006-10-18/transcript · 2006-10-25 · 2006-11-01 · 2006-11-08 · 2006-12-06 · 2006-12-06/Log · 2007-01-17 · 2007-01-21 · 2007-01-24 · 2007-02-07 · 2007-02-28 · 2007-02-28/Log · 2007-03-08 · 2007-03-21 · 2007-05-25 · 2007-06-29 · 2007-07-15 · 2007-07-15/log · 2007-07-17 · 2007-07-17/log · 2007-07-22 · 2007-07-22/log · 2007-07-29 · 2007-07-29/log · 2007-08-01 · 2007-08-05 · 2007-08-05/log · 2007-08-07 · 2007-08-07/log · 2007-08-08 · 2007-08-08/log · 2007-08-12 · 2007-08-12/log/bylaws · 2007-08-12/log/tools · 2007-08-14 · 2007-08-14/log · 2007-08-16 · 2007-08-16/log · 2007-09-03 · 2007-09-03/log · 2007-09-05 · 2007-09-05/log · 2007-09-09 · 2007-09-20 · 2007-10-07