(Redirected from 2006-10-18/transcript)
<paulproteus> Who all is around during this meeting? Announce yourselves, please. <skyfaller> ... and silence descends * paulproteus waves to tannewt and Gnuklear <skyfaller> do we need any help with Wordpress stuff? Firas is online <tannewt> I'm half listening <skyfaller> and offered to help me with FC Swat when I screwed up their wordpress blog <paulproteus> I don't think we need any help with WordPress right now. <paulproteus> http://wiki.freeculture.org/2006-10-18#Agenda <paulproteus> Well, skyfaller, you're the customer tonight. What would you like? <paulproteus> Don't say "mailing lists"; I'm working on that. (-; <paulproteus> rejon, BTW, did you ever look at the existing alternatives to spread.freeculture.org? How do they compare? <skyfaller> well, I guess after that, our front page is important to our image <skyfaller> so let's fix the wheel-duplication and get rid of that error <paulproteus> Right, that magpie RSS junk is dumb. <skyfaller> then I'd like the spam to go away, because it is impossible to manage this level of spam with only Thunderbird's spam filter <paulproteus> skyfaller, How many in a day? <paulproteus> Approximately, anyway. <skyfaller> paulproteus: I don't know, maybe it's not that bad, but I opened up the mail client and saw 600 spam in the inbox * abhay (n=abhay@pdpc/supporter/student/Aranis) has joined #freeculture <jibot> abhay is Abhay Kumar <skyfaller> 60 spams are still there, after Thunderbird's filter kicked in <abhay> greets all <skyfaller> hi abhay :) <paulproteus> abhay, We're chatting about http://wiki.freeculture.org/2006-10-18#Agenda . <paulproteus> The dust has mostly settled since our move from Leafyhost. * ryanfaerman (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #freeculture <paulproteus> Thanks a million for visiting the site of the tragedy, btw. <abhay> no worries. it's unfortunate that i couldn't do anything <abhay> so did we move somewhere else? <paulproteus> Yeah, we're on a Xen guest at acm.jhu.edu, the JHU computing club of which I'm the sysadmin. <abhay> very nice <paulproteus> We're going to further move that Xen guest to a personal server of mine hosted in Joi Ito's office when it gets built and shipped to Japan (which should be within the month). <abhay> oh whoah <paulproteus> Once that starts to happen, we'll talk about some reasonable warm or hot fail-over plan. <skyfaller> offtopic, but isn't there a way to make Thunderbird display the first line of an e-mail, like Gmail does? <skyfaller> it helps a lot when trying to detect spam <paulproteus> abhay, Do you have some time perhaps to help us sort out more mundane issues? <abhay> why do you want to detect spam on your email client? <abhay> why wouldn't you want a blacklist/greylist? <abhay> and then things filter server-side <paulproteus> abhay, Or to give us suggestions about how to configure our mail server. (-; <paulproteus> abhay, Greylisting I understand. Blacklisting isn't a good combination of (fair, effective), when last I looked at it. <skyfaller> abhay: I'm happy with anything that reduces the amount of spam I see :) But some spam always gets through, and it's nice to be able to see the first line of an e-mail <skyfaller> I'll go ask in mozilla's channel or something <paulproteus> Greylisting requires delaying the first email from each sender for a short while, which isn't bad. <paulproteus> skyfaller, #thunderbird on irc.mozilla.org iirc. <paulproteus> So apparently there's a frickin' OCR plugin for spamassassin. <paulproteus> There are reports that dspam seems to handle image spam okay. <skyfaller> wow, that sounds pretty cool <paulproteus> I kinda want to limit the time I spend on FC.o web/tech stuff for the coming week because I can already see it's very busy. <skyfaller> paulproteus: no prob <paulproteus> tannewt, Do me a favor, check if you can SSH into the new freeculture.org (==castor.acm.jhu.edu). <paulproteus> abhay, Can I interest you in hacking the PHP that generates our front page? <tannewt> paulproteus, sure <abhay> i've been avoiding php recently. what needs to be done though? <paulproteus> Right now there's a cron job that downloads some RSS feeds every 30 minutes and jams them into the front page. <paulproteus> It's in PHP for no particular reason. <paulproteus> Since it saves its output to a static file and then exits. <paulproteus> Instead of polling those RSS feeds directly, we'd rather have it poll the feeds generated by our Planet installs, one at freeculture.org/planet , the other at freeculture.org/chapters . <tannewt> paulproteus, its not working <paulproteus> tannewt, Even on castor.acm.jhu.edu? username is freecult? <skyfaller> paulproteus: well, the personal planet doesn't go on the front page yet <paulproteus> If you're looking for a time to test some Ruby or Python or C (!) XML parsing joy, you could do that here if you like; I'm not picky about the language. <skyfaller> just the chapters planet <paulproteus> skyfaller, Oh, right, I just mean polling the chapters planet and the real FC.o blog. <paulproteus> Thanks. <abhay> so what really needs to be done again? <tannewt> paulproteus, I forgot to change the username. It worked. <paulproteus> Modify this cron job (written in PHP right now) so that it takes its data from our Planet's RSS feed rather than from its own sources. <abhay> the current code is bad so replace it? <paulproteus> tannewt, Sweet. <abhay> oh <abhay> gotcha <paulproteus> abhay, The current code is bearable, the problem is that we want a different data source. <skyfaller> and then if the error doesn't go away, we'll need to fix it <abhay> so just change the feed link? why isn't that just something that's compartmentalized in the front of the script or outside the script anyway? <abhay> yeah i know.. obvious question <paulproteus> abhay, It might be, I just haven't looked carefully at it. <paulproteus> abhay, Feel free to SSH in, do it in five minutes, and say, "paulproteus, you loser, it's done". (-; <skyfaller> I mean, is there a better way than magpie? <skyfaller> is our code ugly and stupid? <skyfaller> that's not something I'm qualified to judge <abhay> username is still freecult? <paulproteus> abhay, Yup. And domain is freeculture.org == castor.acm.jhu.edu. <abhay> k <paulproteus> Tell me if things work out okay for you re: login. <abhay> yup i'm in <paulproteus> skyfaller, What can you do to help me get forwarding addresses? <skyfaller> paulproteus: say wha? <paulproteus> I want to fix forwarding addresses. <paulproteus> They're easy and imho important. <paulproteus> Do you know what people had them and with what names, by any chance? <paulproteus> If so, I can look up their email addresses. <skyfaller> I know everyone on the board had them <skyfaller> which is right and proper <skyfaller> I think I'm the only one who uses mine :P <paulproteus> abhay, Cool, let me know what you find. <skyfaller> but give one to everyone on the board, including gavin even though he theoretically resigned <paulproteus> Sure. Board list? <skyfaller> http://freeculture.org/about.php <paulproteus> skyfaller, Okay, sounds good, I'll do that offline after the meeting. <skyfaller> kk <abhay> paulproteus: what is the php script called? <paulproteus> abhay, Do "crontab -l" <paulproteus> It should be mentioned in there. <abhay> oh <abhay> duh <paulproteus> No problem. (-: <abhay> i've been staring at config files all day trying to get my own vps up <abhay> :( <paulproteus> Oh, interesting. <paulproteus> (Do you know about serverpronto.com?) <abhay> i use slicehost <abhay> and mediatemples grid <paulproteus> Interesting re: slicehost. <abhay> they are awesome <abhay> and the guys who own it are as well <paulproteus> My serverpronto.com setup has had no problems, but I'm happy to move to Joi's network. (-: <paulproteus> Sadly the latency is 200ms round-trip. |-: <paulproteus> (From the east coast.) <abhay> yeah ouch <abhay> that's what i was wondering about <paulproteus> It's okay, 'cause I get to build myself a beasty 1U machine with terabytes of disk and have free bandwidth. But I digress, and we'll see how it goes anyway. <skyfaller> ok, so, where are we in the bugs? <paulproteus> Right, good question. <abhay> so we want this planet's feed? http://planet.freeculture.org/ <skyfaller> abhay: no <skyfaller> freeculture.org/chapters/ <abhay> oh <abhay> paulproteus: where are you getting the cash together for the 1U <abhay> and the shipping <abhay> heh <paulproteus> Yeah, the shipping.... <paulproteus> Sharing with some friends some of whom want shells, some of whom want IMAP, but we can talk about this offline too. (-: <paulproteus> skyfaller, Well, let's prioritize. <skyfaller> ok, everyone who is here has working SSH keys <skyfaller> so we're done with that part of the agenda for now <skyfaller> abhay is looking at the wheel-duplicating setup <abhay> wheel duplicating? <skyfaller> paulproteus: are you looking into spam solutions? That seems to be next on the agenda <abhay> oo it's an atom feed <paulproteus> There should also be an RSS 1.0 feed, if you're into that sort of thing, I would guess. <skyfaller> abhay: yes, we have two different lists of chapters feeds, one for the front page aggregator and one for the planet install. This is dumb <abhay> ah <abhay> agreed <paulproteus> skyfaller, For a purely content perspective, https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/37797 ? <paulproteus> skyfaller, Sounds like I should officially take cwilkin's job and put myself on about.php (and boost my PageRank). <paulproteus> Er, I didn't say that. (-; <skyfaller> paulproteus: sure :) as long as you put up a photo and bio <skyfaller> you'll need to make a new heading below the board of directors, I guess... or above it, depending on how active the board of directors is :P * paulproteus chuckles <paulproteus> Below is fine. <paulproteus> Should I comment out Gavin or something? <poningru> comment out gavin? <poningru> what? <poningru> he says yes <paulproteus> Gavin resigned from his Board position. <poningru> yes <paulproteus> Maybe I'll make an alumni section. Is that okay with Gavin? <paulproteus> (And with skyfaller, etc?) <paulproteus> (like cc.org has alumni) <poningru> y <skyfaller> yeah, sure, make alumni <paulproteus> (They have it as a separate page, but when ours starts to get big then maybe we'll move it.) <poningru> --gavin <paulproteus> Thanks, Gavin. (-: <skyfaller> just put it below active "staff" * nile has quit (Remote closed the connection) <paulproteus> Ew, what did I do to the style? /me reverts * nile (i=nile@tor/regular/nile) has joined #freeculture <paulproteus> Well, uh, I'll keep Gavin at the bottom, there, done. <paulproteus> So I guess you want me to do something about spam, eh skyfaller? <paulproteus> I'll try spamassassin for now, then. <skyfaller> heh :) um, you gave up on adding yourself to the page? <paulproteus> For now, at least. Later in life I will. <skyfaller> sure, spamassassin works <skyfaller> um, at least it does if you think it works <paulproteus> abhay, How's that front page hackery going? Any problems? <abhay> yup <abhay> but working on it <paulproteus> abhay, Great, thanks a bajillion. <paulproteus> Not least for putting up with PHP. <paulproteus> I think we can call this meeting to a close. abhay and I are still working on things, but that can continue offline. <paulproteus> Anything else worth discussing? <skyfaller> um, I guess not <skyfaller> did you already annoy Xopher? <paulproteus> Anyone offended by me taking FC.o's website and putting it in Mr. Ito's server rack? <paulproteus> I didn't fresh today, no. <skyfaller> should I go bug him, or would that serve no purpose? <skyfaller> I guess if there is bugging to be done, I'd prefer you to do it <skyfaller> we've double-teamed him more than once <paulproteus> I'll ping him right now. <paulproteus> There, he's IM'd. We'll see what he does. <skyfaller> w00t! * grahl (email@example.com) has joined #freeculture <jibot> grahl is Jan Hendrik Grahl. He is the treasurer for Florida Free Culture and an international student at the University of Florida. He doesn't post enough on his blog http://grahli.net <skyfaller> well, I guess the last question is, is the way we're running the web team now sustainable? <skyfaller> if not, what can we do to make it work better in the future? <paulproteus> Good question. <paulproteus> skyfaller, Xopher says he's at a meeting right now but that he sent it to you. <paulproteus> "it" == more mailing list data, I presume. <skyfaller> paulproteus: he may think that the first one had all of the mailing list data... did you make it clear to him that this is not the case? <Gnuklear> Ah! Sorry, completely missed the meeting... but, I'm here now... anybody sign my life away while I was gone? <paulproteus> Gnuklear, No, not lately. <paulproteus> skyfaller, Making that clear. <paulproteus> re: sustainability: We can scrape by with me at the bottom of it for a long time. I think that's an interesting question but should be tabled until we're back to fully functional. <paulproteus> Christopher Budnick: I don't know - I sent two dumps to Nelson and never received anything back from him <paulproteus> skyfaller, can you confirm or deny "two dumps"? <skyfaller> paulproteus: I got two e-mails from Xopher. I replied to both of them <skyfaller> with a quick "thanks" <skyfaller> the first was the general backup <skyfaller> the second was the incomplete mailing list backup <skyfaller> I have not received any further e-mails from him <paulproteus> Okay, he's aware of this but now off AIM. <skyfaller> ok <Gnuklear> Well, we're a bit past it, but I can confirm that SSH is working for me as well on the new server <paulproteus> Gnuklear, Awesome. (-: <skyfaller> w00t ^_^ * evanpro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) <paulproteus> skyfaller, While we're here, can we close https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/39389 or https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/39390 ? <paulproteus> Say, Gnuklear, could you take a look at https://launchpad.net/products/web/+bug/39389 ? <paulproteus> The key to this bug is reskinning the Planet install. <Gnuklear> Hmm... I'll take a look and see if any plan of action jumps out at me... <Gnuklear> I mean, take a look at the code... <paulproteus> (-: <skyfaller> paulproteus: we can consider 39390 done, I don't care if the personal planet is particularly integrated <paulproteus> Sounds fine, you can call it resolved then. (-: <skyfaller> alright, I will change that * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #freeculture <Gnuklear> paultproteus, if I understand the bug right... then all we're looking to do is add a link to the Chapter information page from the Chapters planet page, yes? If that's the case, then the easiest thing I can think to do is add a link to the chapter info page above "Subscriptions", the text of which being "Chapter Information Page" or something less 1995 sounds, but of that general description.. should I just go ahead and add that in there? <Gnuklear> *less 1995 sounding <paulproteus> Gnuklear, Sure, that makes sense. <paulproteus> Might as well call it "List of all our chapters" rather than "Chapter information page". skyfaller, comment? <skyfaller> erm, wait <skyfaller> I'm not sure you completely understand * paulproteus puts skyfaller and Gnuklear directly in touch <Gnuklear> Yeah, neither am I, straighten me out <skyfaller> What I'm concerned about is that I actually want both the information that is on http://freeculture.org/chapters/chapters.php and http://freeculture.org/chapters/ to be on the same page, in an ideal world... <skyfaller> but I don't think that's really possible <paulproteus> Should/could the two just get skinned the same? <Gnuklear> Ahh... yes, that is quite a different story isn't it.. hmm... <skyfaller> So what I was proposing in that bug is to have the Chapters aggregator be the main "chapters" link, and have a huge honking button that takes you to http://freeculture.org/chapters/chapters.php <skyfaller> But I'm not sure that's the best solution <skyfaller> I'm open to suggestions <skyfaller> I mean, the chapter news and the list of chapters / map are of equal importance, as far as I'm concerned <Gnuklear> Well, if we were to do that... I'd suggest reskinning the planet install so that it matches the rest of the site... <skyfaller> Gnuklear: except the whole site looks ugly <skyfaller> and it's all due for a complete overhaul <Gnuklear> ... was just thinking that too, heh <skyfaller> so I'm not excited about a planet install that looks like the rest of our site <paulproteus> We've been saying that for a year or more, but we don't have an alternate design, so let's just make it consistent. <skyfaller> paulproteus: what do you think of using Wordpress as our CMS? <skyfaller> I think I may have mentioned this idea before <paulproteus> You surely did. <paulproteus> I want to think about it carefully. <paulproteus> Let's talk seriously about that idea next meeting. <paulproteus> I guess I'll put it on the next meeting's agenda. <Gnuklear> I've got a bit of wordpress experience, so it would make my life easier ;-) <paulproteus> Until then, Gnuklear, would it be moderately quick to skin the Planet to look like the real site? <paulproteus> There's no way we're making such a move sooner than two weeks. <paulproteus> (I think, anyway.) <skyfaller> I dunno, i think there are probably more important bugs <skyfaller> I think that making our planet look like our current site would actually be a cosmetic loss <Gnuklear> paulproteus, not entirely sure, I'll have to look at how Planet actually handles its layout <skyfaller> On the other hand, having a menu across the top would be helpful, for getting back to other parts of the site <Gnuklear> *hopes it's not like some systems that use a half dozen stylesheets or more* <paulproteus> Gnuklear, index.tmpl <paulproteus> Let me find it for you. <paulproteus> Gnuklear, run 'crontab -l' <paulproteus> That should show you the directory that holds the config file for this. <Gnuklear> well, that make my life easier <skyfaller> I guess just make a backup before you edit anything <paulproteus> Gnuklear, Sorry about not mentioning that before. (-: <Gnuklear> Lol, it's fine, looking over it, I'm pleasantly surprised... <paulproteus> I vote firmly for integrating this into the current site design. Let's get things working, then talk about changing them. <Gnuklear> It won't be done tonight, but I'll try to have it looking not completely out of place by this weekend <skyfaller> OK :) * skyfaller seconds paulproteus's motion <Gnuklear> Sounds good, the layout change and a link/button to the chapters info page, we all on the same page? <Gnuklear> Or, I suppose I should say, do we all see that as the two tasks to be accomplished in order to close this bug for now? <Gnuklear> Just making sure I haven't missed something * paulproteus defers this to skyfaller * klepas (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #freeculture <jibot> klepas is Pascal Klein, a pixel junkie-cross-college student who enjoys working on desktop artwork and writing words using free software tools. He currently resides in the bush-capital, Canberra, Australia and has a bit of a site at http://klepas.org and a shared one at http://journal.klepas.org <skyfaller> sure, those sound fine <skyfaller> as I said, please back up the current design before you start hacking <Gnuklear> Alright, will do, gonna start on it then <paulproteus> Thanks a bundle, Gnuklear!