Archive:2007-07-15/log

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Log for 2007-07-15 meeting

Log

21:03:44 <skyfaller>	well, it's about time for the meeting to start, but I'm not seeing several people whom I am expecting, so I guess we'll wait a bit
21:03:53 <gavinbaker>	poningru: thx for info
21:03:57 *	hj (n=hj@189.152.136.238) has joined #freeculture
21:04:03 <gavinbaker>	poningru: doing 2 mtgs at once? ;)
21:04:17 <paulproteus>	Well, hey now everybody now.
21:04:26 <poningru>	:p
21:04:34 <contra>	hello
21:04:38 *	hj_ (n=hj@189.152.136.238) has joined #freeculture
21:04:40 <skyfaller>	it is really sad that jibot is not with us....
21:04:49 <skyfaller>	hj_: having connection troubles?
21:04:52 *	bcb2114 (n=brendan@c-69-180-189-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture
21:05:01 *	hj (n=hj@189.152.136.238) has left #freeculture
21:05:02 <skyfaller>	maybe we should consider getting our own IRC bot
21:05:06 <poningru>	...
21:05:06 <bcb2114>	hey, brendan ballou here
21:05:09 <skyfaller>	howdy :)
21:05:15 <paulproteus>	Hey Brendan.
21:05:16 <poningru>	hi brendan
21:05:17 <hj_>	ok sorry im here hello wberyone, have we started yet ?
21:05:20 <paulproteus>	skyfaller, Yeah, maybe.
21:05:23 <contra>	I thought Nelson was the IRC bot
21:05:48 *	skyfaller makes obscure reference to Basshunter, no one gets it
21:06:10 <poningru>	basshunter?
21:06:13 <skyfaller>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boten_Anna
21:06:29 <skyfaller>	let's give people another 5-10 minutes to arrive
21:06:33 <paulproteus>	skyfaller, I'd get it!
21:06:50 <paulproteus>	skyfaller, If you have a sec, say what you think of https://bugs.launchpad.net/web/+bug/102351 
21:07:02 *	gavinbaker gets it
21:07:12 <skyfaller>	I feel like I should find a way for people to entertain themselves / each other while we're waiting for the meeting to start
21:07:24 <skyfaller>	but sure, I'll go look at that bug paulproteus 
21:07:30 <gavinbaker>	we could do some lame meeting-warm up
21:07:39 <gavinbaker>	like, "everybody say one embarassing thing about themselves"
21:07:40 <conley>	oooh, we can do an ice-breaker
21:07:42 <paulproteus>	Quick, everyone play online Connect-4!
21:07:48 <conley>	let's play mafia!
21:08:06 <gavinbaker>	i think the best ice-breaker would be, "everybody start by taking a shot," but there are kids here.
21:08:07 <pyrak>	i know a few sweet improv games, none of which will work on irc :(
21:08:12 <skyfaller>	Hi, I'm Nelson Pavlosky, and I'm responsible for starting this horrible mistake of an organization that we're all participating in.  I think that's pretty embarrassing ;-)
21:08:37 <poningru>	nile's here
21:08:42 <poningru>	he will join in just a sec
21:08:55 <skyfaller>	ok
21:09:16 <skyfaller>	I mean, the obvious thing to do would be to state our name and school
21:09:19 *	paulproteus wonders if we'll get any Bostoners
21:09:29 <skyfaller>	or I could state it for people, since I know everyone ;-)
21:10:17 <skyfaller>	So I'm Nelson, formerly from Swarthmore College, and now preparing to attend my first year at George Mason Law
21:10:33 <paulproteus>	I'm Asheesh, Master of the Web Team and other Fine Technical Arts.
21:10:34 <erin>	I'm Erin, from Stanford
21:10:36 <conley>	My name is Conley Owens.  I'm a rising grad student studying CS (Artificial Intelligence and Bioinformatics) at Virginia Tech.  I have a degree in CS and a degree in math from the same university.
21:10:46 *	mecredis (n=fred@cpe-74-73-135-105.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #freeculture
21:10:47 <Fear_of_C>	I'm Nick, currently at Swarthmore
21:10:50 <paulproteus>	Sweet, hi mecredis.
21:10:54 <mecredis>	yzzha
21:10:59 <poningru>	yarr
21:11:01 <gavinbaker>	oh wow, this works asynchronusly!
21:11:08 <nile>	okay! I'm here!
21:11:21 <mecredis>	so yeah
21:11:21 <paulproteus>	It can be that easy if you skip the collision-avoidance protocol.
21:11:26 *	nile reads scrollback
21:11:36 <poningru>	paulproteus: no wai
21:11:42 <hj_>	Hi im hj (hector jaime) from Monterrey Tech, and its been two months since i last payed for information
21:11:43 <pyrak>	i'm parker, i'm from chadwick (a k-12 in southern california)
21:11:59 <conley>	hj_: awesome
21:12:10 <gavinbaker>	I'm Gavin, recent graduate from the University of Florida currently working for SPARC
21:12:13 <poningru>	Hi I'm Eldo Varghese and cleaning his room
21:12:21 <BrianRowe>	Hello I am Brian Rowe a second year law student at Seattle University..One embaressing thing... I worked for Mircosoft before returning to law school.  I currently run an orginization called Freedom for IP that works to elimate IP when it gets in the way of human rights
21:12:22 <skyfaller>	hj_ = our first Mexican chapter, give him props
21:12:23 <gavinbaker>	poningru: i don't believe that last half.
21:12:24 <mecredis>	?whois Mecredis
21:12:30 <gavinbaker>	mecredis: jibot's awol
21:12:32 <poningru>	no totally its true
21:12:42 <mecredis>	tis a pity
21:12:48 <mecredis>	Fred from NYC / NYU
21:12:50 <paulproteus>	I'm also formerly a student (but never started a chapter) at Johns Hopkins University, and I'm also a software engineer now at Creative Commons.
21:12:52 <poningru>	BrianRowe: ooh nice
21:13:00 <poningru>	you also have an embarrasing last name ;p
21:13:13 <gavinbaker>	hj_: mucho gusto, bienvenidos !
21:13:31 <tvol>	timothy--grad student in school of information at university of michigan and creative commons intern this summer
21:13:32 <bcb2114>	brendan ballou, columbia in  new york
21:13:33 <paulproteus>	skyfaller, is hj_ the guy I Skyped with around April 2005?
21:13:36 <paulproteus>	Oh, hey tvol!
21:13:37 <mecredis>	bcb2114, whas up
21:13:37 <pyrak>	skyfaller, basshunter ftw
21:13:42 <erin>	i think i may be alone in saying i'm doing an undergrad in studio art
21:13:44 <skyfaller>	paulproteus: almost certainly not
21:13:52 <tvol>	hey paulproteus!
21:13:54 <paulproteus>	skyfaller, Shucks.
21:13:54 <mecredis>	erin,  awesome, where?
21:13:57 <tvol>	didn't i just see you?
21:14:01 <erin>	at stanford
21:14:03 <paulproteus>	erin, Thank good, we need more of you!
21:14:11 <paulproteus>	goodness, that is.
21:14:14 <bcb2114>	hey fred - I'm in nyc next week for a columbia fc meeting - are you around?
21:14:18 <mecredis>	bcb2114, indeed
21:14:18 <skyfaller>	good is thankable too, I think
21:14:25 <erin>	i also think i may be the only girl so yes, you do :)
21:14:31 <conley>	btw: skyfaller: I realized I don't have any money, so I won't be dancing tonight
21:14:38 <poningru>	erin: not true
21:14:39 <skyfaller>	erin: there are a number of other females in FC.o, they're just not here right now
21:14:44 <contra>	you don't need money to dance
21:14:50 <erin>	ok good
21:15:02 <contra>	even the fascists can't ban dancing
21:15:17 <poningru>	our female:male is much higher than the normal free software movement female:male
21:15:18 *	pyrak is probably the lowerclassman of the group :/
21:15:26 <gavinbaker>	contra: but the quakers can!
21:15:28 <conley>	contra: If I want to dance with the live band down the street, I have to pay
21:15:29 <gavinbaker>	also the shakers
21:15:36 <skyfaller>	the shakers didn't ban dancing
21:15:42 <skyfaller>	they just danced very strangely
21:15:43 <poningru>	shakers shake but the quakers dont quake
21:15:44 <contra>	Quakers just dance without music
21:15:46 <gavinbaker>	didn't they? they banned sex
21:15:51 <mecredis>	what about dice rolling?
21:15:52 <poningru>	pwnt
21:15:53 <contra>	there are actually two shakers still alive
21:15:55 <nile>	for certain values of "sex"
21:15:55 <contra>	they're very old
21:16:00 <skyfaller>	.... and we are OFF TOPIC
21:16:07 <contra>	did the meeting start?
21:16:12 <hj_>	So, what the agenda for the meeting ?
21:16:13 <mecredis>	who's on first?
21:16:16 <paulproteus>	I didn't see a gavel.
21:16:16 <skyfaller>	contra: yes, we're introducing ourselves :)
21:16:17 <poningru>	contra: I think we are still ice breaker
21:16:18 <mecredis>	I only have a bit of time
21:16:21 <skyfaller>	GAVEL!
21:16:24 *	skyfaller pounds
21:16:26 <nile>	meanwhile, I'm Nile of Florida Free Culture and still without major. though I tell people I'm in Digital Arts and Sciences
21:16:28 <contra>	how do we go around a circle in IRC?
21:16:28 <poningru>	aah not so loud
21:16:31 <contra>	alphabetically?
21:16:37 <skyfaller>	that would have been logical
21:16:40 <skyfaller>	but oh well
21:16:46 <skyfaller>	Scudmissile: you here?
21:16:48 <paulproteus>	Asynchronous is nice, though.
21:17:02 <contra>	I'm Ben. I'm from Swarthmore like the bot says. We're all dancing quakers at Swarthmore
21:17:14 <paulproteus>	It's true, I've been there.
21:17:15 <skyfaller>	the bot isn't here today, sadly
21:17:23 <bcb2114>	yeah, what's first on the agenda?
21:17:31 <skyfaller>	the agenda!  http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15
21:17:53 <skyfaller>	first item was updating the chapter roster
21:18:09 <skyfaller>	I guess I kind of took care of a lot of that today while calling people to remind them of the meeting
21:18:10 <mecredis>	trimming the fat
21:19:01 <skyfaller>	chapters that no longer exist include University of Oregon
21:19:09 <skyfaller>	and Hampshire College
21:19:15 <poningru>	:(
21:19:19 <mecredis>	we hardly knew ye
21:19:36 <skyfaller>	more disturbing are the chapters that still theoretically exist
21:19:40 <skyfaller>	but whom I could not reach
21:19:50 <mecredis>	zombie chapters
21:19:54 <poningru>	how high were they?
21:19:55 <paulproteus>	How might they theoretically exist?
21:19:58 <paulproteus>	They update blogs, etc.?
21:19:58 *	BenK_HMC (n=ben@ip72-200-155-112.ri.ri.cox.net) has joined #freeculture
21:20:02 <pyrak>	i'll bring back hampshire if i end up going there :P
21:20:06 <skyfaller>	well, their contact graduated, e.g. Emerson
21:20:13 <mecredis>	ok
21:20:18 <mecredis>	why don't we  make a category for them
21:20:19 <nile>	paulproteus, by still being on the chapters list, of course. the computer tells me so. it must be true. =)
21:20:27 <skyfaller>	yeah, we'll probably want to make categories for our chapters
21:20:30 <mecredis>	like "Once Active, Now Possibly Defunct due to Graduation, etc."
21:20:33 <skyfaller>	e.g. "Active" and "Inactive"
21:20:42 <skyfaller>	which brings me to my next point
21:21:00 <skyfaller>	we're in the process of overhauling our chapter database
21:21:12 <skyfaller>	paulproteus: any idea of an ETA?  how complete is the code?
21:21:30 <paulproteus>	skyfaller, I'm afraid I don't have an ETA, but I can try to have one mid this week.
21:21:34 <skyfaller>	ok, sounds good
21:21:42 <skyfaller>	once the chapters database is overhauled, we're going to have to ask all of our chapters to re-register
21:21:47 <mecredis>	hrmmm
21:21:50 <mecredis>	ok
21:21:56 <skyfaller>	the old database is too crufty
21:21:57 <paulproteus>	skyfaller, We don't *have* to, but I think it's a good thing to do.
21:22:01 <skyfaller>	full of out of date info
21:22:04 <mecredis>	sure
21:22:08 *	paulproteus nods, Sure.
21:22:14 <skyfaller>	and it'll also help us tell who is active and who isn't
21:22:21 <mecredis>	ok ok
21:22:29 <skyfaller>	chapters that don't reregister after repeated e-mails, IMs, phone calls etc. can be considered dead
21:22:33 <contra>	you'll need to wait until the semester starts
21:22:39 <nile>	what about our luddite chapters who don't use the internet? =(
21:22:51 <skyfaller>	so that'll help us tell for sure
21:22:57 <contra>	and you might be able to get graduating/inactive members to pass the baton to other students at the school
21:22:59 <skyfaller>	nile: I'll call them :P
21:23:18 <contra>	Fear_of_C: you here?
21:23:20 <poningru>	people who dont use internet?
21:23:21 <mecredis>	nile, those chapters are even more worrying
21:23:24 <poningru>	that doesnt exist
21:23:26 <skyfaller>	contra: yeah, that's something we need to formalize more
21:23:27 <Fear_of_C>	yep, I'm here
21:23:35 <contra>	well hello then
21:23:39 <Fear_of_C>	hi
21:23:41 <skyfaller>	contra: we need to make sure that's part of running a chapter and finishing your year
21:23:51 <skyfaller>	you should hand off officially at the end of the year
21:24:01 <conley>	btw: is this meeting restricted to chapter leaders?
21:24:05 <mecredis>	most "official" clubs at schools have processes for that
21:24:09 <skyfaller>	conley: decidedly not
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun 21:24:15 2007

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun 21:24:23 2007

21:24:24 *	Now talking on #freeculture
21:24:24 *	Topic for #freeculture is: FreeCulture.org | student movement for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | New Web site just launched, check it out! | Chapters meeting Sunday, 15 July at 9 pm EDT (now) | Agenda/minutes at: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15
21:24:24 *	Topic for #freeculture set by skyfaller at Sun 21:02:20 2007
21:24:24 -NickServ-	Password accepted - you are now recognized
21:24:24 *	services. sets mode +e skyfaller
21:24:24 *	NickServ set your hostname to "wikipedia/Skyfaller"
21:24:28 <skyfaller>	oops, closed the window, sorry
21:24:45 <skyfaller>	anyway
21:24:55 *	tannewt (n=scott@gentoo/developer/tannewt) has joined #freeculture
21:25:01 <paulproteus>	Hey tannewt!
21:25:08 *	gavinbaker eats a sandwich & reads scrollback
21:25:16 <nile>	gavinbaker, yum
21:25:17 <skyfaller>	tannewt: howdy!  are you bringing Free Culture to Seattle along with BrianRowe? ;-)
21:25:37 <tannewt>	skyfaller, not really, have other things
21:25:48 <skyfaller>	well, that's another chapter we can scratch I guess
21:25:51 <skyfaller>	moving on!
21:26:02 <nile>	Seattle should have a chapter. I mean, it's Seattle!
21:26:05 <nile>	oh well
21:26:18 <BrianRowe>	We have one chapter 
21:26:21 <mecredis>	hrm
21:26:26 <erin>	Stanford didn't and lessig is here 
21:26:31 <erin>	you just can't predict
21:26:41 <mecredis>	erin,  good point
21:26:46 *	nile scratches chin
21:27:01 *	mllerustad (n=mllerust@c-69-143-179-58.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture
21:27:01 *	chz (n=chz@cpe-024-162-252-149.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #freeculture
21:27:07 <skyfaller>	so one thing I wanted from people was to know whether anybody is graduating
21:27:09 <tannewt>	skyfaller, of course if the campus is up in arms about the RIAA next fall I might try and kickstart the group
21:27:11 *	ma9us (n=limehat@cpe-066-057-241-053.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #freeculture
21:27:13 <skyfaller>	and passing on the torch
21:27:20 <conley>	chz and ma9us are both my minions
21:27:25 <poningru>	lol
21:27:31 <conley>	both undergrad CS majors, seniors
21:27:32 <ma9us>	Hey
21:27:37 <paulproteus>	conley, Good, the world needs more Free Culture Minions.
21:27:37 <poningru>	damn I want minions
21:27:39 <skyfaller>	I'm guessing that nobody in this channel falls into that category, but feel free to prove me wrong
21:27:43 <skyfaller>	hooray for minions
21:27:44 <BrianRowe>	we should get one going at UW maybe through thier informatics program or the MLIS program... 
21:27:52 <hj_>	Im allready out of school, so im looking to "the chosen one" probably it will happen un january
21:28:00 <poningru>	BrianRowe: awesome
21:28:31 <hj_>	all my team is about to graduate, or graduated... we still need fresh blood
21:28:43 <skyfaller>	hj_: literally nobody is left?  well, that's interesting
21:28:49 <hj_>	i hope with this semesters "big" events we can attract people
21:28:58 <skyfaller>	oh, about to graduate
21:29:02 <hj_>	well they are, but none of the can take care of the chapter
21:29:09 <hj_>	everyone is full of things to do...
21:29:20 <hj_>	working, responsabilities with other groups etc...
21:29:22 <gavinbaker>	hj_: do you know the cc | mx guys?
21:29:34 <hj_>	nope, i believe they are at Mexico city right ?
21:29:40 <gavinbaker>	hj_: i think so, not sure
21:29:48 <gavinbaker>	they like mezcal, if you throw a party probably they will come
21:29:55 <gavinbaker>	mecredis: is that not true?
21:29:55 <hj_>	i mean i can keep taking care of the chapter, but it think a student should be in charge
21:30:04 <paulproteus>	hj_, Yeah, I know what you mean...
21:30:11 <paulproteus>	Not from personal experience but from others'.
21:30:18 <mecredis>	gavinbaker, cc mexcio?
21:30:22 <mecredis>	huh?
21:30:34 <gavinbaker>	you know, leon and his friend. rio... the mezcal...
21:30:38 <paulproteus>	mecredis, http://creativecommons.org.mx/
21:30:40 <gavinbaker>	</OT>
21:30:42 <paulproteus>	Also, the Mezcal.
21:30:54 <pyrak>	we should have various degrees of activity, i think just having a semi-active mailing list and occasional exchanging of ideas is "active"
21:30:55 <mecredis>	right, but why am I being asked?
21:31:26 <gavinbaker>	mecredis: you were in rio
21:31:28 <skyfaller>	hj_: well, if you want to hand off the FC contact to a student, if you find someone, just tell us
21:31:39 <skyfaller>	so we know to update the chapter contact info etc.
21:31:52 <hj_>	ok its still not a problem, but next year ill be running three companies, so i might need help
21:32:16 <mecredis>	oh, not sure, my memory is faint re: CC MX
21:32:16 <skyfaller>	I also know for instance that Erin Watson from UNC has graduated, and she gave me the name of the new contact Catherine but I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet
21:32:21 <hj_>	im sure that by january we will find a great team of fresh blood to take over
21:32:33 <poningru>	mecredis: too much alcohol?
21:32:34 *	Yaco2 (n=Yaco2@201.255.250.190) has joined #freeculture
21:32:35 <poningru>	;P
21:32:38 <contra>	over-organizing cannot make up for lack of enthusiastic members
21:32:38 <skyfaller>	we need to have a better process for bringing new chapter members into the national organization
21:32:54 <skyfaller>	OK, before we move on to the next subject
21:32:56 <poningru>	skyfaller: give them pidgin and point em toward irc?
21:33:02 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: what's the timeline for re-registering?
21:33:05 <poningru>	I think a social structure needs to exist
21:33:33 <mecredis>	contra, totally with you on that
21:33:35 <skyfaller>	Re-registering: we need to get our chapters re-registered before the semester starts
21:33:44 <skyfaller>	so that we can be sure that we have up-to-date shipping info if nothing else
21:33:54 <poningru>	will the website be ready before then?
21:33:55 <Fear_of_C>	we are shipping things at the start of the semester?
21:33:59 <skyfaller>	and we can ship care packages to all the chapters as usual
21:34:17 <mecredis>	ok guys
21:34:19 <mecredis>	I have to split
21:34:23 <poningru>	cya
21:34:23 <mecredis>	anyone interested in free culture
21:34:25 <mecredis>	and running a chapter
21:34:26 <conley>	is the stuff you ship free for us (as in free beer)
21:34:27 <skyfaller>	poningru: whether or not the new chapters database is ready, we'll have to go ahead... if the new database isn't ready in time, we'll just hand-hack the old database to work for one more semseter
21:34:29 <mecredis>	can e-mail me
21:34:34 <mecredis>	or if you're in NYC
21:34:36 *	nile waves to mecredis 
21:34:38 <mecredis>	just drop by
21:34:41 <poningru>	dont drink too much
21:34:46 <poningru>	skyfaller: hmm k
21:34:48 <mecredis>	fcb @ fredbenenson.com / 917 862 7819
21:34:48 <mecredis>	ciao
21:34:55 <skyfaller>	conley: yeah, we'll be shipping you stuff from our friends like EFF, CC, and PK, as well as some of our own stuff hopefully, like t-shirts
21:35:02 <poningru>	w00t
21:35:06 <conley>	sweet!
21:35:11 *	mecredis (n=fred@cpe-74-73-135-105.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #freeculture ("Leaving")
21:35:15 <contra>	FreeCulture van that goes campus-to-campus giving out free beer and free software. 
21:35:15 <poningru>	maybe this time we wont give it all away at the first meeting
21:35:20 *	poningru glares at gavinbaker 
21:35:24 <gavinbaker>	contra: Free Beer, even
21:35:25 <BrianRowe>	where do we need to add our mailing adress?
21:35:35 <gavinbaker>	poningru: s/first/a year later
21:35:48 <skyfaller>	BrianRowe: we'll tell you over the chapters mailing list when the re-registering site is ready
21:35:58 <skyfaller>	so this meeting was partially a test of that mailing list :P
21:35:58 <BrianRowe>	ok
21:35:59 <contra>	the best part is we get Nelson to dress up in an obnoxious outfit and have a megaphone shouting about "opening your source"
21:36:15 <gavinbaker>	if the re-registration site isn't ready in 30 days, we're tar-and-fearing skyfaller (and maybe paulproteus too)
21:36:22 <skyfaller>	:P  thanks, Gavin
21:36:24 <poningru>	lol
21:36:34 <skyfaller>	and that's about all I have to say about the chapters headcount
21:36:35 <gavinbaker>	s/fear/feather
21:36:41 <skyfaller>	wait
21:36:46 <gavinbaker>	if you want to help get the new database up quicker, talk to paulproteus !
21:36:48 <skyfaller>	before we do anything else, can someone take minutes?
21:37:11 <poningru>	‚ÄΩ
21:37:12 <nile>	wow. I didn't get anything from the chapters mailing list. I guess I'm not registered for it, after all.
21:37:14 <paulproteus>	I nominate contra.
21:37:18 *	poningru pastes his logs
21:37:24 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller, i'll write up minutes from the logs.
21:37:33 <paulproteus>	Sounds good to me.
21:37:44 <contra>	ha, if I do minutes I'm not mentioning any of my comments
21:38:03 <nile>	<3 gavinbaker 
21:38:08 *	gavinbaker is mentioning contra's comments
21:38:11 *	erinR (i=ab40f482@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-1a6f2f9f84f07a86) has joined #freeculture
21:38:23 <nile>	erinR, are you erin ?
21:38:25 <skyfaller>	paulproteus: incidentally, if we could get a bot to automatically log the channel, at least during meetings, that would be good
21:38:26 *	nile blinks
21:38:27 <erinR>	yes
21:38:32 *	cameronparkins (n=cameronp@adsl-69-232-233-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #freeculture
21:38:33 <nile>	welcome back :)
21:38:35 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: you sure you want this to be public?
21:38:37 <erinR>	having weird problems with firefox
21:38:38 <paulproteus>	Sweet, hi cameronparkins.
21:38:38 <erinR>	thanks
21:38:38 <skyfaller>	heh, guess that web portal isn't as reliable as we hoped
21:38:43 <cameronparkins>	hey all - sorry im so late
21:38:47 *	paulproteus gets all eye-shifty
21:38:48 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: at least during meetings, yes
21:38:55 <skyfaller>	well, I guess the log could be private
21:39:06 <skyfaller>	but anyway
21:39:08 <poningru>	skyfaller: we all log our irc channels
21:39:10 *	gavinbaker forgot to include a ;) in his last comment
21:39:24 <poningru>	so I can just upload it somewhere
21:39:35 <skyfaller>	poningru: yes, but it should be online somewhere where the person taking minutes can get at them... and it shouldn't have to be done manually by you
21:39:37 <pyrak>	erinR, so am I! omgtwins!
21:39:41 <skyfaller>	but yeah
21:39:44 <skyfaller>	moving on!
21:39:54 <skyfaller>	so this brings us to how we can help chapters
21:40:01 <contra>	I plan on my posthumous reputation being built entirely from IRC logs and witty IM conversations. Oh and facebook profiles. 
21:40:03 <skyfaller>	see the agenda at http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 if you're arriving late
21:40:40 <skyfaller>	So as that page says, we can offer various webhosting things
21:40:49 <contra>	like a blog eventually? ;-)
21:40:57 <skyfaller>	if you have your own hosting somewhere, we can point a subdomain at it
21:41:14 <hj_>	we could also have a Wordpress MU setup...
21:41:14 <skyfaller>	we currently offer mailing lists and wikis to our chapters
21:41:29 <poningru>	hj_: paulproteus is working on that iirc
21:41:33 <skyfaller>	hj_: yes, in the near future we also hope to offer blogs
21:41:49 <poningru>	err s/paulproteus/web team
21:41:57 <gavinbaker>	poningru: lulz
21:42:09 <skyfaller>	erinR  asked whether we could just give her access to the server so she could install stuff herself, and the answer is a qualified yes!
21:42:24 <conley>	can you just give us ftp and a mysql database?
21:42:33 <conley>	and we can do our own blog setups?
21:42:45 <skyfaller>	conley: we can offer things like that, yes, but let me finish explaining
21:42:52 *	barney (i=fimns328@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-8409f4a2ab1cfd2d) has joined #freeculture
21:42:55 <conley>	sorry
21:43:03 <gavinbaker>	friendly announcement: to follow along in the agenda, read along @ http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15
21:43:18 <skyfaller>	it's a qualified yes because we wanted to avoid having 100 different Wordpress installations, all in various states of decay
21:43:42 <Fear_of_C>	also, it might be helpful to standardize things if we are using openID
21:43:58 <skyfaller>	what we want to be able to offer is a single installation, which can serve up multiple websites
21:44:06 <skyfaller>	we are already doing that with Mediawiki
21:44:18 <skyfaller>	we can create a wiki for your chapter in no time at all
21:44:37 <skyfaller>	and it is run from a single Mediawiki installation, so that when we update the software, the software for every chapter wiki gets updated at the same time
21:44:39 <gavinbaker>	FC.o could, in theory, create little disk "accounts" (partitions) for each chapter to play with
21:44:49 <gavinbaker>	but it seems a lot more reasonable to have one install of WordPress than 30
21:44:50 <poningru>	or just give them quotas
21:45:07 <gavinbaker>	especially because then we can make sure they're all maintained / secure / etc.
21:45:08 <poningru>	err I was thinking quotas for ftp
21:45:13 <skyfaller>	you also benefit from improvements we make to the Mediawiki install, like updating the anti-spam measures
21:45:21 <pyrak>	i think we can compromise between both standardization and having a sandbox to play in
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun 21:45:28 2007

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun 21:45:34 2007

21:45:34 *	Now talking on #freeculture
21:45:34 *	Topic for #freeculture is: FreeCulture.org | student movement for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | New Web site just launched, check it out! | Chapters meeting Sunday, 15 July at 9 pm EDT (now) | Agenda/minutes at: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15
21:45:34 *	Topic for #freeculture set by skyfaller at Sun 21:02:20 2007
21:45:36 *	poningru rofl
21:45:38 <poningru>	s
21:45:46 <skyfaller>	I keep closing the @#$%ing window
21:45:53 <Fear_of_C>	i also think that most chapters will get bored with playing around at some point, and it will be good to only have to maintain the blogs once
21:46:09 <skyfaller>	yeah, I think that it may be more beneficial to have our hackers working on interesting stuff
21:46:14 <skyfaller>	instead of installing Wordpress 100 times
21:46:14 <gavinbaker>	the status quo is, each chapter can do whatever they want -- they just have to host it themselves
21:46:16 <Fear_of_C>	though i like the idea of chopping up the extra space for individual accounts
21:46:25 <gavinbaker>	of course anyone is welcome to self-host whatever they want, forever
21:46:33 <Fear_of_C>	in case some chapter has some special additions they want to make
21:46:35 *	nile nails skyfaller's IRC window to his screen so he stops closing it
21:46:54 <skyfaller>	We definitely give people shell accounts on our server, and give them  sandboxes to play with.  But when they play, I think it would be better for them to play with interesting stuff like Columbia's Tor project instead of the basics
21:46:59 <skyfaller>	like a wiki or a blog
21:47:04 <Fear_of_C>	agreed
21:47:09 <pyrak>	here here
21:47:12 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: i don't see why we should prevent people from playing with the basics, if they want
21:47:19 <gavinbaker>	unless there are security / manageability concerns
21:47:22 <gavinbaker>	which i think there are
21:47:32 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: well, it's also just a massive duplication of effort
21:47:35 <Fear_of_C>	people still could
21:47:41 *	mark007 kicks the door in and takes a seat
21:47:42 <Fear_of_C>	they just shouldn't have to
21:47:43 <gavinbaker>	but to ban it because "we don't want you to waste your time" is pretty nanny state-ish
21:47:52 <skyfaller>	and I think it's better for people to be free to work on their chapter instead of having to sweat this boring tech stuff
21:47:55 <skyfaller>	we're not goingn to ban it
21:47:56 *	gavinbaker hands mark007 a cold cider | welcome, friend
21:47:58 <skyfaller>	*going to
21:48:25 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: we already said FC.o would host it if the chapters wanted. the question is, what if the chapter doesn't want
21:48:29 <skyfaller>	but we are going to offer these web services and encourage people to contribute to the central code instead of everyone installing their own copies of the same software
21:48:30 *	poningru takes the cold cider from mark007 
21:48:33 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: then that's fine
21:48:33 <poningru>	dude he's below 21
21:48:42 <skyfaller>	we'll continue to offer subdomain forwarding as we do today
21:48:46 <mark007>	I wasn't going to report it if you weren't...
21:48:56 <poningru>	skyfaller gavinbaker: i think we can give them chroot env that wont mess with the rest of the stuff
21:48:57 <paulproteus>	Guys, there's not much to say about web hosting; let's move on.  The summary is, If you ask for something, you'll get it, perhaps also with a lecture.
21:49:02 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: you seemed to imply that we wouldn't be offering webspace for people to poke around with their own blog, etc. is that accurate?
21:49:12 <gavinbaker>	poningru: on the internet, no one knows you're <21
21:49:14 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: no, you missed the point
21:49:17 <poningru>	paulproteus++
21:49:28 <poningru>	ok guys what paulproteus said
21:49:30 <contra>	on the internet, no one knows you're only skimming the IRC backlog
21:49:31 <nile>	sersiouly.
21:49:32 *	BenK_HMC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:49:42 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: I said that they could but I'd prefer that they didn't spend their time installing a wiki and blog which we could do for them in two seconds
21:49:54 <skyfaller>	and instead work on more interesting software projects and creating something new
21:50:03 <skyfaller>	but if they want to install their own blog
21:50:06 <skyfaller>	nobody will stop them
21:50:08 <pyrak>	then we're all on the same page i think
21:50:11 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller, for the record that's not what you said, but if that's what you meant, cool. i just wanted to be clear. any other questions?
21:50:25 <poningru>	...
21:50:29 <gavinbaker>	p.s. he who takes the minutes writes the record :D
21:50:37 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: you're kind of scary, dude
21:50:40 <skyfaller>	ok, moving on
21:50:42 <Fear_of_C>	is there a way that we can create wordpress "profiles"?
21:50:54 <Fear_of_C>	st. the swarthmore one can say swarthmore, etc.
21:50:59 <Fear_of_C>	i assume there is
21:51:03 <poningru>	Fear_of_C: yes MU
21:51:05 <skyfaller>	Fear_of_C: yes yes
21:51:07 <poningru>	and its already done
21:51:21 <skyfaller>	Fear_of_C, contra, erinR: if you want to talk webspace, stay after the meeting
21:51:28 <skyfaller>	and paulproteus and I and others will help you out
21:51:39 <gavinbaker>	conley might be included in that too -- is that right?
21:51:40 <erinR>	ok sounds good
21:51:43 <Fear_of_C>	ok
21:51:45 <skyfaller>	yah
21:51:59 <conley>	maybe
21:52:03 <skyfaller>	so we also offer shipping of care packages, as mentioned
21:52:16 <conley>	I mean yea, I definitly want webspace
21:52:30 <gavinbaker>	conley: ok, hang out after then
21:52:35 <skyfaller>	conley: you can have whatever kind of webspace you want, ignore the above discussion, we'll talk about it afterwards
21:52:35 <contra>	ok
21:53:04 <skyfaller>	so there are various issues with the care packages
21:53:17 <skyfaller>	we can ship plenty of stuff from friendly organizations as always
21:53:32 <skyfaller>	but I think it's important that we be able to offer some of our own stuff
21:53:37 <skyfaller>	e.g. pamphlets, t-shirts
21:53:49 <skyfaller>	today is not the day to discuss that in detail
21:53:58 <skyfaller>	but we will need volunteers to help produce this stuff
21:54:00 <pyrak>	shop.freeculture.org!
21:54:10 <pyrak>	;)
21:54:15 <gavinbaker>	"Free as in speech, but not as in beer"
21:54:19 <Fear_of_C>	what type of production?  graphic design, stuffing boxes, etc.?
21:54:20 <skyfaller>	pyrak: yeah, we could use your help developing the website end of that actually, but we'll cover that another time
21:54:30 <pyrak>	roger roger
21:54:39 <skyfaller>	Fear_of_C: all of the above
21:55:03 <skyfaller>	... and gavinbaker is playing OpenQuake
21:55:12 <pyrak>	i'll enlist some friends to throw out some graphical ideas
21:55:14 <contra>	I think it'd be cooler to give people computer-processable designs and instructions on how to print their own stuff in a nice way
21:55:21 <skyfaller>	contra: we can do that too
21:55:28 <pyrak>	contra++
21:55:31 <poningru>	skyfaller: nile and I have been thinking about trying to make shirts
21:55:37 <contra>	I think it's more reasonable, considering we don't have money or people to stuff boxes
21:55:43 <skyfaller>	but if you're just starting a new chapter, you may not have an opportunity to duplicate things on a massive scale before you have any other members
21:55:52 <skyfaller>	or the budget before you have a club
21:55:59 <contra>	hopefully new clubs can still print flyers, etc. 
21:56:06 <Fear_of_C>	that which can be printed from a standard computer can be sent over the internet, but there's some stuff that's harder
21:56:14 <skyfaller>	we want to lower the barrier to entry for people as much as possible
21:56:19 <contra>	Fear_of_C: I mean give instructions for how/where to silkscreen t-shirts, etc. 
21:56:21 <Fear_of_C>	things like posters and t-shirts can be really difficult/expensive for small orgs to get
21:56:23 <skyfaller>	the goal is to make it dead easy to start a chapter
21:56:33 <contra>	yeah, well FCorg is a small organization
21:56:41 <contra>	how can we afford to do this on a large scale?
21:56:45 <Fear_of_C>	i mean, SWIL (a club at our school) went through hell trying to print like 3 posters
21:56:50 <skyfaller>	contra: we'll get to that later in this meeting
21:56:54 <Fear_of_C>	if someone else in the national org can print them cheap
21:57:03 <Fear_of_C>	then they should and distribute to the others
21:57:06 <skyfaller>	contra: the traditional way is that I spend my personal time to assemble everything in my dorm and ship it to people :P
21:57:15 <contra>	Fear_of_C: then that's the kind of thing that can be done with a strong mailing list/horizontal communication. 
21:57:16 <pyrak>	skyfaller, i read the wiki entry about this so i know the deficult it entails, but i think we still need a bubbly, inviting, graphical explanation of "wtf is free culture"?
21:57:17 <gavinbaker>	i feel like FC.o should be "big" enough to print and distribute T-shirts and posters for its chapters. but that's later in the agenda
21:57:20 <contra>	it's still going to be decentralized
21:57:49 <skyfaller>	contra: we'll return to that in a few minutes
21:57:49 <contra>	gavinbaker: I'm not saying it SHOULDN'T be big enough, it just isn't able to do this right now efficiently (e.g., can guarantee I'll get a box of free t-shirts)
21:58:04 <contra>	oki
21:58:07 <gavinbaker>	contra: it's actually worked pretty well a few times. well, it's worked ok
21:58:13 <skyfaller>	the point is that we have done shipping several times in the past
21:58:15 <gavinbaker>	the shirts did get there eventually
21:58:18 <Fear_of_C>	but it has much more ability to do that than most of the chapters do invidually
21:58:20 <skyfaller>	it's one of the few things we've done every year
21:58:27 <gavinbaker>	and there's a box of them now... in my bedroom, actually
21:58:32 <contra>	gavinbaker: then sign Swat up for some free swag to give out :)
21:58:32 <Fear_of_C>	because it is still an order of magnitude larger than any of the chapters
21:58:47 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: define "larger," but sure
21:58:59 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: do we have enough shirts right now for all the chapters?
21:59:02 <Fear_of_C>	and anyway, the admin stuff should be centralized, i think, unless chapters opt out of such coordination
21:59:05 <gavinbaker>	and are we missing any sizes or anything like that?
21:59:12 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: let's talk about this a bit later :)
21:59:20 <poningru>	yes can we get some large shirts please?
21:59:27 <skyfaller>	we are missing sizes, we'll have to print more
21:59:32 <skyfaller>	we are almost out of large and have no XL
21:59:36 <gavinbaker>	aww, poningru, you look so cute in the one you have!
21:59:43 <poningru>	my beer belly does not like the tiny shirt
21:59:48 *	poningru beats up gavinbaker 
21:59:49 *	nile chuckles
21:59:51 <pyrak>	i'm wearing mine now ;)
22:00:26 <skyfaller>	So the main point of that is that we're going to need volunteers for various things, including graphic design, printing stuff e.g. t-shirts or buttons, etc.
22:00:32 <gavinbaker>	so only good-looking people can wear FC.o shirts. nice PR control! | jk
22:00:38 <skyfaller>	I guess I'll grab something from later in the agenda real quick
22:00:42 <nile>	gavinbaker, ow.
22:00:49 <contra>	FCorg calendar
22:00:52 <skyfaller>	we'd like to have volunteer meetings in the future
22:01:00 <poningru>	gavinbaker: I have a body of a god
22:01:05 <poningru>	buddha
22:01:06 <contra>	"wearing nothing but EFF pasties"
22:01:14 <skyfaller>	to "crowdsource" some of this labor
22:01:37 <contra>	I feel like anyone who uses the term crowdsource after being at the national conference can only do so with at least 15% irony
22:01:42 <skyfaller>	traditionally the way we handle volunteers on the national level is through the "Core" list, which is composed of all people who want to work on FC national stuff
22:02:07 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: but in the box o' swag that arrives in august or sept., the chapters will be getting some FC.o shirts, right?
22:02:14 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: yes
22:02:27 <skyfaller>	although if we don't manage to print more before then, you won't be able to get larger than a Large
22:02:33 <gavinbaker>	but later we'll print more, and everyone will be happy.
22:02:39 <skyfaller>	quite so
22:02:40 <gavinbaker>	ok, so what else can FC.o do for chapters
22:02:41 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: mailing lists for chapters?
22:02:49 <skyfaller>	yeah, we covered that under web hosting
22:03:07 <skyfaller>	and as we said, if you want web hosting help, you can stay after this meeting
22:03:15 <skyfaller>	and we'll give you whatever webspace stuff you nee
22:03:16 <gavinbaker>	good, just checking your memory.
22:03:16 <skyfaller>	*need
22:03:28 <gavinbaker>	so how can chapters get advice / camaraderie?
22:03:29 <skyfaller>	this is why real-time minutes would be good :P
22:03:37 <skyfaller>	heh, and gavin is holding me to the agenda
22:03:41 <skyfaller>	foiling my attempts to skip ahead
22:04:08 <skyfaller>	So another thing we wanted to talk about is how you can get advice
22:04:14 <skyfaller>	or just hobnob with other chapter members
22:04:25 <skyfaller>	obviously you can use this IRC channel
22:04:34 <skyfaller>	a bunch of us hang out here constantly
22:04:48 *	fco_guest02 (n=ca394196@30.145.221.202.bf.2iij.net) has joined #freeculture
22:04:52 <skyfaller>	and we hope to have Chapters meetings on a regular basis here in the future
22:04:54 <gavinbaker>	just so everyone knows, FC.o is a great place to find a boyfriend.
22:05:09 *	pyrak is single ;)
22:05:10 *	fco_guest02 has quit (Client Quit)
22:05:10 <contra>	gavinbaker: I doubt there are women here right now ;-)
22:05:12 <poningru>	totally
22:05:16 <erinR>	hey i'm still here
22:05:17 *	poningru looks at erinR 
22:05:20 <poningru>	rofl
22:05:24 <gavinbaker>	ladies, you gonna prove contra wrong?
22:05:25 <erinR>	i'm just listening
22:05:25 <skyfaller>	mllerustad: is also a female
22:05:31 <contra>	if there's one woman, it's even creepier
22:05:32 <poningru>	but taken ;)
22:05:32 <gavinbaker>	as is mind|wandering 
22:05:50 <skyfaller>	mllerustad started the Claremont chapter, and also is my girlfriend who I met through FreeCulture.org.  Hi Karen!
22:05:55 <skyfaller>	see, FC.o can find you love
22:06:07 <mllerustad>	Hi, skyfaller!
22:06:11 <gavinbaker>	selling us high there, skyfaller 
22:06:13 <mllerustad>	:p
22:06:14 <poningru>	awwwwwww
22:06:16 <contra>	you guys are probably in the same room right now
22:06:17 <skyfaller>	also, this proves that there are at least two females in the channel
22:06:21 <poningru>	rofl
22:06:24 <mllerustad>	contra: Bingo.
22:06:25 <contra>	which is the kind of relationship you get through FCorg: IRC-based :)
22:06:39 <skyfaller>	ouch
22:06:41 <nile>	okay, this is getting silly. (and depressing =P). MOVING ON!
22:06:46 <gavinbaker>	so IRC's great! what else ya got?
22:06:53 <contra>	I still occasionally slip and say "slash me" IRL conversation
22:06:54 *	mllerustad can has two x chromosomes?!?
22:06:55 <skyfaller>	we also have mailing lists
22:06:55 <poningru>	EMAIL
22:07:02 <nile>	email sucks ass.
22:07:11 <skyfaller>	there is the FC-discuss list
22:07:13 <contra>	yes, more actual chapter members need to use the mailing list
22:07:14 <skyfaller>	which you can sign up for
22:07:23 <contra>	it's very...other-group dominated
22:07:31 <skyfaller>	I must admit that it seems to have been invaded by people who are not actually part of FreeCulture.org
22:07:37 <poningru>	rofl
22:07:39 <erinR>	like who?
22:07:41 <skyfaller>	but I can't figure out how to get rid of them without seeming like an asshole
22:07:46 <poningru>	COPYRIGHT NEEDS TO BE BANNED
22:07:49 <nile>	how often do we have national get-togethers? does it always happen annually, or just when someone-or-another thinks to organize one?
22:07:49 <skyfaller>	maybe I am an asshole, oh well
22:07:59 <skyfaller>	nile: that's next on the agenda!
22:08:05 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: "oops! our server lost the data. except, we recovered all of it, except apparently your email address. our bad!"
22:08:08 <contra>	not to be ironic, but I think proper use of the mailing list for advice/requests could helpfully "crowd source" a lot of our problems about supporting chapters
22:08:18 <erinR>	let's have the next one out here: the bay area's weather is nicer than boston
22:08:26 <erinR>	:)
22:08:28 <gavinbaker>	so there's this crazy thing called the chapters list
22:08:33 <poningru>	no no... sunny florida
22:08:42 <gavinbaker>	which, wouldn't you know it, is for the chapter leaders
22:08:43 <skyfaller>	mllerustad, cameronparkins are talking about organizing a west coast conference for next year
22:08:44 <pyrak>	bay area ftw
22:08:49 <erinR>	hurray!
22:08:51 <pyrak>	wait, which bay?
22:08:56 <poningru>	tampa bay
22:08:57 <poningru>	!!
22:09:00 <gavinbaker>	pyrak: the Gulf of Tonkin, d00d
22:09:03 <skyfaller>	pyrak: you can help them too
22:09:10 <skyfaller>	and erinR!
22:09:16 <skyfaller>	wow, we actually have people on the west coast now
22:09:20 <cameronparkins>	skyfaller, millerustad: discussions haven't begun yet, but its still on my radar for things i want to get togheter
22:09:20 <skyfaller>	how strange
22:09:22 <erinR>	maybe lessig will agree to talk
22:09:24 <paulproteus>	erin, Hey, where are you exactly...?
22:09:25 <gavinbaker>	and some our of West Coast buddy orgz
22:09:28 <erinR>	at stanford
22:09:30 <gavinbaker>	like paulproteus !
22:09:36 <skyfaller>	she's only said that like 3 times guys
22:09:53 <Fear_of_C>	this might be crazy, but could we re-register the mailing list when we re-register the chapters?
22:09:58 <Fear_of_C>	or something of that sort
22:10:03 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: or maybe even before then?
22:10:08 <poningru>	err why?
22:10:10 <skyfaller>	heh, we could do that
22:10:10 <contra>	I don't want to kick out the other orgs from the mailing list
22:10:12 <poningru>	we might lose readership
22:10:19 <gavinbaker>	no no, there's a chapters list
22:10:24 <gavinbaker>	i assume that's what Fear_of_C means
22:10:27 <Fear_of_C>	it would be more polite than GTFO my mailing list
22:10:28 <gavinbaker>	at least, that's what i means
22:10:29 <cameronparkins>	do we have a list of all the active west caost chapters?
22:10:31 <cameronparkins>	coast*
22:10:35 <contra>	Fear_of_C: we have to get our mailing list back on track. Or maybe people just ignore my posts
22:10:42 <gavinbaker>	we need to get our chapter leaders on the chapters list
22:10:45 <skyfaller>	I mean, the point of the FC-discuss list was to be open to outsiders
22:10:51 <erinR>	is santa cruz's chapter still active?
22:10:56 <Fear_of_C>	also, I don't know if I'm on the mailing list, or which mailing list(s) I'm on
22:11:01 <skyfaller>	but the problem is that no actual relevant content is getting posted by actual FC members
22:11:03 <gavinbaker>	there's nothing wrong fc-disco. we just need something more, er, manageable
22:11:07 <gavinbaker>	for our seekrit cabals
22:11:16 <poningru>	skyfaller: not at the expense of idiocy being introduced into it
22:11:33 *	conley heads off to the bathroom
22:11:35 <skyfaller>	yeah, so gavinbaker is saying that we can just take our intelligent conversations elsewhere
22:11:41 <skyfaller>	i.e. to the Chapters list
22:11:45 <skyfaller>	which you all should be subscribed to
22:12:00 <skyfaller>	when we say "chapter leaders", we don't mean one person per chapter
22:12:13 <gavinbaker>	and boy, it'd be great if people actually used the chapters list. let's talk!
22:12:14 <skyfaller>	any chapter members who want to talk to other chapter members can be subscribed
22:12:30 <skyfaller>	so conley, your minions can be subscribed to it too
22:12:39 <contra>	dividing up the mailing list is only going to make it less effective
22:12:48 <contra>	one big mailing list will be fine until we actual get some REAL volume
22:12:53 <contra>	(thus spake Ben)
22:13:02 <skyfaller>	well, the Chapters list can be specifically for chapters stuff
22:13:14 <skyfaller>	while FC-discuss is about anything at all related to free culture issues
22:13:24 <skyfaller>	and you can go have philosophical debates and flamewars there
22:13:34 <skyfaller>	while we keep Chapters on task and on topic
22:13:38 <Fear_of_C>	agreed
22:13:40 <poningru>	\0/ flamewars
22:13:54 <skyfaller>	flameware?
22:13:59 *	conley reenters and takes a seat
22:14:00 <contra>	I think this problem is generally solved by technology. Most people use mail clients with folders, filtering, threading, etc. It's easy to skip what you don't want
22:14:08 <gavinbaker>	whenever you want advice about how to do something at your chapter -- post it to chapters list!
22:14:11 <contra>	I know I ignore most of the list postings :)
22:14:12 <Fear_of_C>	some people use clients with that stuff
22:14:16 *	nile_ (n=nile@ip72-209-65-174.ga.at.cox.net) has joined #freeculture
22:14:18 <skyfaller>	what gavinbaker said
22:14:19 <nile_>	anyway.
22:14:24 <skyfaller>	if you want help with your chapter, post to Chapters
22:14:30 <skyfaller>	and on-topic advice will be rendered
22:14:35 <Fear_of_C>	some of us prefer to just limit the input in the first place
22:14:48 <skyfaller>	if you want to discuss general free culture issues, post to FC-discuss
22:14:48 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: then don't subscribe to FC-disco ;)
22:14:48 <Fear_of_C>	and will unsubscribe to anything that doesn't get down to business enough % of the time
22:15:00 <contra>	me, I like when people send me emails because it helps to defray some of the feeling of being ignored when I send emails to other people
22:15:00 <Fear_of_C>	I seriously doubt that I am subscribed
22:15:05 <skyfaller>	I think FC-discuss can be useeful, it was useful in the past
22:15:15 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: you'd know if you were. your guitar would explode in your hands
22:15:18 <skyfaller>	it's just not useful for specific chapters help for instance
22:15:28 <skyfaller>	but yeah, we have mailing lists
22:15:29 <skyfaller>	moving on!
22:15:31 <gavinbaker>	so for help with your chapter, post to chapters list. and if you see a question there, reply to it!
22:15:41 <gavinbaker>	(if you're not on the list, bug... skyfaller or paulproteus or someone)
22:15:50 <poningru>	yeah gavinbaker
22:15:54 <poningru>	bug him
22:16:19 <skyfaller>	so yeah, another thing we have is a webpage that aggregates the personal blogs of FC members
22:16:24 <skyfaller>	if they want to be aggregated
22:16:30 <pyrak>	planet?
22:16:33 <skyfaller>	yeah
22:16:41 <poningru>	pyrak: i.e planet.ubuntulinux.com
22:16:41 <skyfaller>	http://planet.freeculture.org/
22:16:42 *	bcb2114_ (n=brendan@c-69-180-189-36.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture
22:16:46 <poningru>	err e.g
22:16:48 <skyfaller>	it's not heavily populated
22:16:51 *	poningru shakes fist at nile
22:16:59 <skyfaller>	but if you have a personal blog and you want it on there, we can put it there
22:17:09 <skyfaller>	and then you can read about the adventures of your fellow FC members
22:17:14 <pyrak>	skyfaller, so the posts on the planet are not necessarily fc based?
22:17:27 <skyfaller>	pyrak: no, they're your personal blog about whatever you want to write about
22:17:33 <skyfaller>	it's just so that people can get to know each other
22:17:39 <skyfaller>	even though they don't live in the same place or anything
22:17:40 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: can we populate planet, and make it pretty, and publicize it more?
22:17:48 <pyrak>	ok, i'll talk to you later about adding madebyparker.com/blog :)
22:17:48 <conley>	how does someone get on the planet?
22:17:50 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: sure!  but we need more blogs I guess
22:18:01 <gavinbaker>	it's kinda ghettoized now
22:18:04 <skyfaller>	conley: ask me or gavinbaker, I guess
22:18:18 <conley>	ok, I am conley.toejammer.net/blog
22:18:22 <gavinbaker>	uh, i'll post to chapters asking people for their blog feeds, and you'll send them to me, for the time being ;)
22:18:23 <skyfaller>	we'll figure out a way to scale that process better some other time
22:18:29 <skyfaller>	sure, that works gavinbaker 
22:18:31 <skyfaller>	moving on!
22:18:31 <nile_>	so the Planet isn't the same as the aggregated FC.o chapters thing?
22:18:36 <skyfaller>	nile_: no
22:18:48 <gavinbaker>	nile_: correct, not the same thing
22:18:52 <skyfaller>	http://freeculture.org/chapternews/  is the aggregator for Chapter blogs
22:19:00 <skyfaller>	which is also mostly populated by blog posts from Peru
22:19:11 <skyfaller>	b/c none of our US chapters have used their blogs recently
22:19:14 <skyfaller>	which is sad, really
22:19:27 <skyfaller>	but we'll tackle that another time
22:19:33 *	bcb2114_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:19:42 *	nile_ aggregates his Flying Spaghetti Monster post
22:19:47 <poningru>	aye no
22:19:51 <poningru>	dont do it
22:19:55 <skyfaller>	noo, did we lose bcb2114 ?
22:20:02 <skyfaller>	anyway, moving on
22:20:06 <skyfaller>	Summits!
22:20:14 <skyfaller>	or Conferences
22:20:23 <skyfaller>	physical get-togethers!  meetups!
22:20:30 <nile_>	how often have they happened in the past?
22:20:40 <skyfaller>	nile_: they've happened about once a year in the past
22:20:49 <skyfaller>	one year we also had a regional conference in NYC
22:21:10 <skyfaller>	I think that we should stick with one or two big national conferences a year, where we try to get EVERYONE together
22:21:17 <skyfaller>	but we should also try to have more local meetups
22:21:19 <conley>	Is there an rss feed on the planet? I can't find one
22:21:23 <gavinbaker>	like, over the summer
22:21:25 <BrianRowe>	on the confernce note we need to plan the national confernce further in advance if we want west coasters to attend
22:21:39 <skyfaller>	conley: it's a horrible web page design, we'll need to overhaul it sometime
22:21:45 <skyfaller>	but it does produce an RSS feed
22:21:52 <gavinbaker>	summer mixers, particularly for interns and stuff like that
22:22:10 <gavinbaker>	BrianRowe: yeah, it's been hard for anybody from the non-immediate vicinity
22:22:15 <gavinbaker>	especially with no travel funding
22:22:26 <skyfaller>	yeah, since many of us are in different cities from our schools, this is a great opportunity to meet people from other chapters
22:22:35 <paulproteus>	conley, For the RSS feed, my Firefox detects and shows the icon.
22:22:43 <skyfaller>	so let's try to get together this summer!
22:22:56 <conley>	yea, I figured it out
22:23:04 <skyfaller>	to facilitate summer get-togethers, I'd like to propose rebooting the regional mailing lists
22:23:31 <skyfaller>	traditionally we had mailing lists for large metro areas
22:23:57 <skyfaller>	unfortunately when Leafyhost's server crashed we lost those lists, but now is a good time to start them again
22:24:01 <skyfaller>	so we'
22:24:21 <skyfaller>	we'll be advertising in the near future local mailing lists, and you can sign up for them and organize get togethers with one another
22:24:23 *	nile_ likes the idea of physical meetups. real life for the win.
22:24:26 <skyfaller>	in the FC-approved decentralized fashion
22:24:47 <skyfaller>	you can also use the national wiki for that sort of thing if you want
22:24:59 <skyfaller>	wiki + mailing list should be enough technology to get y'all together
22:25:07 <nile_>	I don't know how effective using regional mailing lists would be, especially if you're only in the region for a short while
22:25:13 <gavinbaker>	nile_: you just like the cider :)
22:25:19 <skyfaller>	nile_: well, if the mailing list archives are public
22:25:20 <nile_>	gavinbaker: pshaw
22:25:25 <hj_>	jajaja yeah i think my reginal meeting wont be a wild party...
22:25:27 <skyfaller>	you can read them before subscribing
22:25:32 <skyfaller>	or never subscribe at all
22:25:35 <gavinbaker>	lurkerrr
22:25:50 <BrianRowe>	might want to try to get people togeter at other local events like copynight or Net^2 events
22:26:04 <skyfaller>	yeah, we support Copynight http://www.copynight.org/
22:26:04 <gavinbaker>	hey, crazy idea, guys. since we have planet for blog rss feeds, can we do something similar for rss feeds from photo sites like flickr?
22:26:07 <poningru>	copynight++
22:26:14 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: heh, we could do that too
22:26:31 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: file a bug on our bug tracker  https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs
22:26:32 <gavinbaker>	fileabug--
22:26:39 <skyfaller>	:P
22:26:48 *	pyrak wishes there was an open source alternative to flickr
22:27:03 *	nile has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:27:10 <skyfaller>	so hj_ brings up a good point
22:27:15 <Fear_of_C>	make one
22:27:15 <skyfaller>	what if there aren't other people in your area
22:27:22 <skyfaller>	that's why we have the national meetups
22:27:24 <pyrak>	recruit!
22:27:28 <pyrak>	oh
22:27:32 <skyfaller>	certain places like the Midwest are sparsely populated
22:27:42 <skyfaller>	especially with Free Culture folks
22:27:56 <skyfaller>	but if we can get everyone together in one place, then that matters less
22:28:12 <skyfaller>	we'd like to have both a west coast and east coast conference next year, I guess we'll see if we can pull it off
22:28:15 <skyfaller>	but one thing is clear
22:28:28 <skyfaller>	without funding to help cover people's transportation, these conferences won't be as awesome as they could be 
22:28:36 <skyfaller>	which we will get to later in the agenda!
22:28:48 <skyfaller>	(sorry that this meeting is getting a little long, we'll try to hurry it up)
22:29:19 <skyfaller>	So, that's all I have to say about physical meetups for the moment
22:29:27 <skyfaller>	hopefully the regional meetups will go well this summer
22:29:28 *	mark007 has quit ("leaving")
22:29:32 <gavinbaker>	there's plenty of ways to make friends. so make friends :)
22:29:44 <skyfaller>	and hopefully people like cameronparkins will help us organize national summits for next year
22:29:48 <skyfaller>	moving on
22:29:49 <poningru>	skyfaller: yeah in teh south east we are the only people
22:29:57 <skyfaller>	News from FreeCulture.org!
22:30:03 <skyfaller>	bcb2114: are you still there?
22:30:22 <skyfaller>	guess not
22:30:41 <skyfaller>	we have several potential national projects
22:30:50 <skyfaller>	which we could get our chapters working on
22:30:54 <gavinbaker>	slash volunteers
22:31:18 *	contra has quit ()
22:31:53 <skyfaller>	One example which I wanted Brendan from Columbia to talk about is Open Textbooks
22:32:31 <skyfaller>	Brendan has been working on a front-end for finding open access / public domain textbooks for your classes
22:32:43 <skyfaller>	it's an expansion of an idea that our Columbia chapter came up with
22:33:05 <gavinbaker>	the idea is to just make a simple tool so that people won't waste money buying a copy of Moby Dick if they don't want to
22:33:10 <hj_>	skyfaller: is there a demo we can look at, ? it would help a lot to my Print ond Demand proyect
22:33:12 <gavinbaker>	and promote the public domain in the process
22:33:22 <skyfaller>	at Columbia they handed out public domain textbooks on flashdrives to students
22:33:36 <poningru>	soo cool
22:33:42 <skyfaller>	it was especially relevant at Columbia because one of their core classes is about classic literature
22:33:42 <poningru>	gavinbaker, nile_ we should do that
22:33:47 <skyfaller>	which is almost entirely public domain
22:33:55 *	mark007 (n=mark007@pool-71-101-191-76.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #freeculture
22:33:58 <skyfaller>	so students didn't have to buy textbooks for that class if they didn't want to
22:34:02 <pyrak>	this is neat, i remember musing about this same idea in here before, another nice thing would be instructions on what equipment is needed to make hard copies
22:34:13 <skyfaller>	we want to generalize that, to encourage people to make open access textbooks and such
22:34:23 <Fear_of_C>	some local network filesharing like DC++ could take out the overhead
22:34:55 <skyfaller>	one idea was making a Facebook frontend, an application that can detect what classes you have and what textbooks are required for it, and tell you if there are free copies available
22:35:01 <skyfaller>	but that's just one idea of many
22:35:02 <Fear_of_C>	it would be cool if the necessary texts were all behind the firewall
22:35:02 <gavinbaker>	s/Facebook/"web app"
22:35:15 <Fear_of_C>	Facebook is good for marketing this kind of thing
22:35:19 <gavinbaker>	the other ideas that have been kicking around (which are all on the wiki)
22:35:32 <gavinbaker>	all of these are things where some initial planning has already gone into it
22:35:51 <gavinbaker>	so we don't necessarily have to go forward with them -- and they all need volunteers to help -- but they're some ideas for starters
22:36:00 <BrianRowe>	the SU chapter is pushing the idea of updating Wikipedia entries for supreme court cases we cover in class.  we did a few last spring
22:36:13 <gavinbaker>	we've talked with the Digital Freedom Campaign about concerns on/near college campuses about p2p filesharing
22:36:18 <nile_>	man, that's a great idea.
22:36:30 <gavinbaker>	we've talked with the Future of Music Coalition about concerts on/near college campuses about Net neutrality (their Rock the Net campaign)
22:36:56 <gavinbaker>	uh, we have this idea for an interactive open access repository for student e-prints and working papers
22:37:04 <gavinbaker>	(if you don't know what that means, ask me later...)
22:37:18 <gavinbaker>	like the first half of PLoS One, except for students, in any subject
22:37:33 <gavinbaker>	uh, and there's this crazy thing going on to create a survey for U.S. Presidential candidates
22:37:36 <nile_>	first half? what's the second half of PLoS ONE?
22:37:45 <gavinbaker>	nile_: the second half is a formally peer-reviewed journal
22:37:53 <nile_>	gotcha
22:37:57 <gavinbaker>	the survey, a bunch of "grown-up" orgs are working on
22:38:07 <gavinbaker>	and it's pretty flippin' sweet, if i do say so myself.
22:38:13 <nile_>	who's heading up that candidates survey thing?
22:38:15 <gavinbaker>	(something similar happened in france earlier this year)
22:38:19 <gavinbaker>	nile_: brendan, i think
22:38:36 *	bcb2114 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:38:36 <skyfaller>	which is why it's a shame that he seems to have signed off, but yeah
22:38:40 <gavinbaker>	ok, so those are some ideas. we need help on all of them -- or we could abort any of them. YOU will decide :)
22:38:40 <poningru>	oh seriously?
22:38:48 <gavinbaker>	at the next volunteer meeting
22:38:52 <gavinbaker>	which brings us to...
22:38:54 <poningru>	abort!!! abort!!! abort!!!
22:38:58 <skyfaller>	...
22:39:02 <poningru>	:p
22:39:07 <gavinbaker>	well, actually, that's later. in a bit we'll talk about how to get involved with FC.o
22:39:13 *	nile_ aborts poningru with a /kick
22:39:19 <gavinbaker>	uh, so that's my spiel.
22:39:27 <skyfaller>	OK, so next subject
22:39:37 <skyfaller>	IS EVERYONE PAYING ATTENTION?  THIS IS IMPORTANT
22:39:44 *	pyrak widens eyes
22:39:52 <Fear_of_C>	***wakes up
22:39:58 <skyfaller>	So next is The Future of FreeCulture.org
22:40:13 <BrianRowe>	...
22:40:14 <skyfaller>	http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15  is our agenda for those who forgot
22:40:30 <skyfaller>	So one problem that has plagued our organization is ... a lack of organization
22:40:49 <skyfaller>	we have no by-laws or constitution or any founding document
22:41:01 <skyfaller>	so it's unclear how decisions are made
22:41:11 <conley>	Fear_of_C: type /me to do an action
22:41:14 <skyfaller>	a while ago a bunch of people appointed themselves to a Board of Directors
22:41:23 <skyfaller>	including myself
22:41:27 <Fear_of_C>	conley: thanks
22:41:34 *	Fear_of_C thanks conley
22:41:39 <conley>	Fear_of_C: np
22:41:50 <skyfaller>	there were theoretically elections, but since all seats were uncontested we didn't even bother voting
22:42:10 <skyfaller>	and it's not clear how we would have conducted the election properly anyway
22:42:16 <nile_>	interesting
22:42:20 <skyfaller>	this is one of many examples of the evils of not having bylaws
22:42:30 <skyfaller>	it's important to know how the organization works and how decisions are made
22:43:01 <skyfaller>	and it's important to have an organizational structure, a system that can outlive any single personality
22:43:12 <skyfaller>	an institution
22:43:38 <skyfaller>	we have a draft of by-laws that we have written up on the wiki
22:43:44 <skyfaller>	at http://wiki.freeculture.org/Bylaws
22:43:57 <skyfaller>	it's still got some editing left to go
22:44:17 <conley>	I love the pseudo-official lingo
22:44:33 <skyfaller>	but I'd like to officially open a comments period for these by-laws
22:45:02 <nile_>	skyfaller: who ratifies it? when do we plan on having it become official?
22:45:17 <BrianRowe>	do you want comments on the disscussion page or people editing the bi-laws directly?
22:45:33 <skyfaller>	and once we have collected comments, we should do a second "release candidate"
22:45:39 <skyfaller>	and then we should have the chapters ratify them
22:45:45 <skyfaller>	ratify the bylaws
22:45:50 <gavinbaker>	BrianRowe: discuss on the Talk page
22:46:01 <skyfaller>	yes, on that page click the "discussion" tab
22:46:08 <gavinbaker>	(we wanted to use the GPLv3 revision system, but we couldn't get it up+running soon enough)
22:46:10 <skyfaller>	to leave your own comments and read those of other people
22:46:19 *	cameronparkins has quit (Connection timed out)
22:46:47 <skyfaller>	once the by-laws are ratified, we will have an official organizational structure
22:46:59 <gavinbaker>	so is the Talk page the "official" forum for discussing the bylaws? not the mailing list or IRC, e.g.?
22:47:25 <skyfaller>	well, the Talk page is public and on the web
22:47:33 <Fear_of_C>	it's generally best to avoid cluttering the mailing lists
22:47:41 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: hah, very funny
22:47:42 <skyfaller>	you can talk about it elsewhere, but *official* comments that you want to work into the bylaws
22:47:47 <skyfaller>	should go on that Talk page
22:47:54 <skyfaller>	all other discussion will be considered unofficial
22:48:20 <gavinbaker>	another question, actually
22:48:27 <gavinbaker>	how will RC2 be prepared?
22:48:36 <gavinbaker>	like who decides what goes in the release candidate?
22:48:49 <gavinbaker>	"consensus"?
22:48:59 <skyfaller>	well, that's a good question, isn't it?  too bad we don't have a way to make decisions in this org!
22:49:08 <poningru>	rofl
22:49:12 <nile_>	it makes it more fun
22:49:15 <skyfaller>	we can run things by the Board of Directors, which was essentially self-appointed
22:49:25 <skyfaller>	we can do consensus
22:49:43 <skyfaller>	among all the chapters / chapter members who are payinga attention
22:49:50 <Fear_of_C>	if we are looking to replace the current governing structure, then i think it eventually has to come down to some kind of chapter vote
22:49:50 <skyfaller>	in practice, I guess we'll do both
22:50:01 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: right, the chapters will vote on the RC
22:50:04 <skyfaller>	Fear_of_C: yes, that's what the ratification process is
22:50:06 <gavinbaker>	to "ratify" it
22:50:14 <skyfaller>	if it doesn't get ratified, then we have to go edit it some more
22:50:20 <gavinbaker>	i just wondered, where does the RC come from... i guess the ether / the wikimonster
22:50:22 <pyrak>	we need both a house and a senate
22:50:29 <skyfaller>	so it's in everyone's interest to get the by-laws to the point where all the chapters can be ratified
22:50:31 <Fear_of_C>	ok, so this happens after the redatabasing?
22:50:35 <pyrak>	so chapters get equal say, but bigger chapters get more say
22:50:35 <poningru>	oye vey
22:50:45 <poningru>	pyrak: too complicated
22:50:46 <skyfaller>	pyrak: I have arguments as to why that isn't true
22:50:57 <pyrak>	skyfaller, i was mostly joking
22:51:05 <skyfaller>	we can discuss that in detail later
22:51:11 <pyrak>	roger roger
22:51:11 <skyfaller>	so yeah, once we have the by-laws ratified, we'll know how to hold elections
22:51:25 <skyfaller>	and it's high time that we elected a new board of directors and got some new blood into the org
22:51:34 <skyfaller>	I'd like to get the elections finished before school starts
22:51:37 <gavinbaker>	heh, sure you don't want to use the bug tracker to write the bylaws?
22:51:41 <skyfaller>	...
22:51:47 <skyfaller>	pretty sure, yes
22:51:54 <gavinbaker>	that'd be fun ;)
22:52:18 <skyfaller>	so I'd like to hold elections before school starts, so that we'll have our new leadership ready before people get too busy
22:52:26 <nile_>	BUG #1: We're writing by-laws instead of doing something more interesting.
22:52:32 <gavinbaker>	WONTFIX
22:52:43 <poningru>	pwnt
22:52:44 <nile_>	BUG #2: We're writing by-laws instead of doing something more interesting.
22:52:46 <skyfaller>	nile_: there's no instead about it, we can do other things simultaneously :P
22:53:11 *	nile_ dupes til the bug counter variable overflows and it becomes bug #1 again
22:53:21 <skyfaller>	nile_: but the point is that BUG #3: "We can't do anything interesting until we get organized" trumps #1 and #@
22:53:24 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: CONFIRMED
22:53:24 <skyfaller>	erm, #2
22:53:35 <gavinbaker>	priority: HIGH
22:53:53 <gavinbaker>	uh, so what's the timeline on this crazy plan?
22:53:56 <skyfaller>	so I would appreciate everyone's help / cooperation in getting organized, and we'll be discussing this in detail over the next several weeks
22:53:57 <gavinbaker>	s/crazy/"crafty"
22:54:18 <nile_>	s,craft,crufty =D
22:54:19 <skyfaller>	well, as I said, I'd like to hold elections and get our new Board in place before the beginning of the schoolyear
22:54:25 <skyfaller>	which puts us on a tight schedule
22:54:51 <skyfaller>	I'd like to set the deadline for commenting on the Bylaws for 7/29
22:54:59 <gavinbaker>	paulproteus++ | for bug fixin'
22:55:14 <skyfaller>	at which point we'll fix the by-laws to include everyone's comments, as far as possible
22:55:24 <gavinbaker>	ok, so that's 2 weeks to comment on the bylaws?
22:55:29 <skyfaller>	yep
22:55:44 <gavinbaker>	that should be plenty of time to hash stuff out on the Talk page
22:55:49 <skyfaller>	it's a tight schedule, and it may slip, but the more it slips the more we'll be doing stupid organizational stuff during the school year
22:55:51 *	cameronparkins (n=cameronp@c-76-102-175-119.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #freeculture
22:55:53 <skyfaller>	when we should be doing activism
22:56:08 <gavinbaker>	s,activism,"something more interesting"
22:56:08 <cameronparkins>	sorry about getting kicked off - wireless at the coffee shop went down
22:56:15 <skyfaller>	so I think we can re-write the bylaws to incorporate comments in about a week
22:56:17 <gavinbaker>	cameronparkins: sue the bastards
22:56:24 <skyfaller>	or less than a week, I mean
22:56:36 <skyfaller>	like, a day
22:56:44 <skyfaller>	because we'll be incorporating comments as they are made
22:56:55 <skyfaller>	we'll be working before the comment period deadline on 7/20
22:56:56 <skyfaller>	erm
22:56:56 <gavinbaker>	so what i'm hearing is, there's going to be a meeting on 7/29 to prepare the RC?
22:56:59 <skyfaller>	7/29
22:57:11 <cameronparkins>	gavinbake: already did (ps ive got some cool stuff for you read OA, sorry I havent e-mailed it yet)
22:57:32 <skyfaller>	yeah, on 7/29 we'll meet up and try to prepare the RC of the bylaws
22:57:33 <cameronparkins>	gavinbaker: already did (ps ive got some cool stuff for you read OA, sorry I havent e-mailed it yet)
22:57:42 <cameronparkins>	i have a knack for typos
22:57:43 <gavinbaker>	cameronparkins: ooh, send it
22:58:02 <skyfaller>	so I'd like to have the by-laws rewritten like that day
22:58:14 <skyfaller>	then I'd like to offer the by-laws to the chapters to be ratified
22:58:34 *	Christina_ (n=chatzill@ool-4579d643.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freeculture
22:58:38 <skyfaller>	I'd like to set the deadline for that on 8/5
22:58:55 <nile_>	yay, it's Christina_ 
22:58:58 <conley>	I'm going home, I suppose I will be back on in 30 minutes, is there anything you all need from me?
22:58:59 <skyfaller>	August 5th, for those who are wondering what my date format is
22:59:05 <skyfaller>	conley: nah, it'll be in the minutes
22:59:12 <skyfaller>	sorry for the meeting taking longer than anticipated
22:59:13 <Christina_>	Yes! I am so glad you're still here- just got back from Boston
22:59:20 <conley>	no prob, later
22:59:24 *	conley has quit ("Leaving.")
22:59:27 <skyfaller>	Christina_: heh, I don't think most of us are glad that we're still here
22:59:32 *	hj_ will be back in 20 min...  
22:59:32 <Christina_>	hahahaha
22:59:33 <skyfaller>	but at least one of us is happy :)
22:59:38 *	pyrak yawns
22:59:40 <pyrak>	:P
22:59:44 <skyfaller>	we're almost done folks
22:59:51 <skyfaller>	stick with us for a few more minutes
23:00:00 <Christina_>	so obviously I have missed a lot, I will be trying to catch on
23:00:10 <skyfaller>	So I'd like to have the by-laws ratified by August 5th
23:00:13 <skyfaller>	by all the chapters
23:00:14 <nile_>	Christina_: gavinbaker is writing up minutes, I believe
23:00:35 <Christina_>	ok great thank you
23:00:36 <skyfaller>	which would allow us to begin nominating people for the Board of Directors
23:00:40 <nile_>	skyfaller: sounds good. chapters = chapters' presidents?
23:01:19 <skyfaller>	nile_: that's a detail of the by-laws, but I guess, one vote per chapter is what I've proposed in the by-laws
23:01:40 <gavinbaker>	i guess each chapter decides how their vote is cast?
23:01:45 <skyfaller>	yeah, that's what I propose
23:01:53 <skyfaller>	it doesn't have to be their president
23:02:08 <gavinbaker>	so, unilateral decision by the president, vote of the exec. board, vote of the membership... however the chapter wants
23:02:14 *	nile_ blinks
23:02:16 <skyfaller>	consensus (ugh)
23:02:21 <skyfaller>	whatever works for each chapter
23:02:25 <nile_>	okay then
23:02:29 <gavinbaker>	there's the meta-decision of how to decide that, but for now, chapters will just "decide" something and that's the vote :D
23:02:45 <skyfaller>	yeah, each chapter can figure that out in their own by-laws or whatever :P
23:02:48 <gavinbaker>	later on, each chapter can have their own discussion about how to vote
23:02:54 <skyfaller>	we're just working on the national org's by-laws right now
23:03:16 <skyfaller>	so by 8/12, I want to open the polls, and let chapters start voting for the Board of Directors
23:03:26 <skyfaller>	I want to close the polls by 8/19
23:03:34 <skyfaller>	and then we'll have a Board of Directors
23:03:39 <skyfaller>	once the votes are counted
23:03:49 <pyrak>	cap on number of board members?
23:03:57 <skyfaller>	pyrak: a detail of the by-laws
23:04:06 <skyfaller>	it'll depend on how many people are nominated, I suppose
23:04:18 <skyfaller>	we've proposed 5, 7 or 9 board members in the by-laws
23:04:28 <skyfaller>	but it's a detail that isn't that vitally important to me
23:04:38 <skyfaller>	that week, the new Board of Directors will have their first meeting
23:04:45 <skyfaller>	which will be right at the start of the school year
23:05:03 <gavinbaker>	pyrak: we can discuss on the Talk page how many board members there should be
23:05:07 <skyfaller>	so we'll have a full organization organized and ready to take on the world by the end of August
23:05:18 <pyrak>	s/on/over :)
23:05:26 <poningru>	lol
23:05:53 <skyfaller>	which will allow us to get back to the business of activism just as the school year starts
23:06:05 <skyfaller>	however, we will simultaneously have to prepare for the school year itself
23:06:37 *	tvol has quit (Connection timed out)
23:06:38 <gavinbaker>	uh, so about that
23:06:43 <gavinbaker>	let's get some volunteers!
23:06:55 <skyfaller>	"how to get involved with FreeCulture.org" 
23:07:04 <skyfaller>	http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15 again is the agenda, Christina_ 
23:07:18 <Christina_>	thanks i have been checking it out
23:07:43 <skyfaller>	so we used to have volunteer meetings all the time
23:07:59 <skyfaller>	we had something called the "Core team" which consisted of everyone who was interested in volunteering at the national level
23:08:12 <skyfaller>	it had its own mailing list, the Core list
23:08:20 <skyfaller>	and it got things done sometimes pretty well :)
23:08:45 *	nile (i=nile@tor/regular/nile) has joined #freeculture
23:08:51 <skyfaller>	its main fault was the lack of organization / decision-making structure, which is something that I hope the by-laws and elections will take care of by the end of the summer
23:09:03 <skyfaller>	but until then we'll just have to forge ahead in anarchy ;-)
23:09:10 <skyfaller>	I'd like to re-create that list
23:09:12 *	nile shakes fist
23:09:17 <gavinbaker>	s/anarchy/consensus
23:09:33 <skyfaller>	and get people organized and working on the stuff that we need to do before the school year starts
23:09:44 <skyfaller>	so that we can start the semester on the right foot
23:09:49 <gavinbaker>	there's also the broad question of having FC.o open to input/involvement overall
23:09:49 <skyfaller>	so how can you get involved
23:09:58 <gavinbaker>	which is important in two ways
23:10:06 <gavinbaker>	both because FC.o needs more people to help out
23:10:09 <Christina_>	I know that at the conference I mentioned that I would be interested in acting as the press point person
23:10:23 <Christina_>	would still love to do that
23:10:25 <gavinbaker>	and because FC.o *should* be open to volunteers from the chapters
23:10:33 <Christina_>	agreed
23:10:35 <gavinbaker>	Christina_: great, noted -- we used to have a press person
23:10:42 <gavinbaker>	there actually used to be a press team
23:10:51 <gavinbaker>	it didn't always work great... but we have to try again
23:10:55 <gavinbaker>	and keep trying and tinkering until it works
23:10:57 <Christina_>	need a self-appointed comm director? im the girl
23:10:59 <Christina_>	haha
23:11:19 <skyfaller>	there have been various ideas about how we can do volunteerism better
23:11:35 <skyfaller>	obviously if we're more open with the tasks that need to be done
23:11:45 <skyfaller>	then it's easier for volunteers to chip in
23:11:52 <skyfaller>	lowering the barrier to entry is an excellent goal
23:11:56 <Christina_>	let's prioritize
23:12:02 <pyrak>	what if we approached it in an almost craigslit-type way?
23:12:03 <Christina_>	where do we need the most help?
23:12:21 <skyfaller>	Christina_: we need help everywhere, it's a little hard to prioritize at the moment.  Give me a sec
23:12:23 <gavinbaker>	Christina_: we'll have to save this for another meeting, unfortunately
23:12:29 <gavinbaker>	we've been here for 2h+ at this point
23:12:31 <Christina_>	craig's list is amazing, i just held an arts event in boston the majority of people who came to help were because of craig's list
23:12:38 <gavinbaker>	which is why we need to have volunteer meetings again
23:12:53 <gavinbaker>	so... when's the next volunteer meeting? ( skyfaller? )
23:13:13 <skyfaller>	heh, I wanted to briefly talk about where we've done successful volunteer work recently
23:13:26 <skyfaller>	specifically, the Web Team
23:13:35 <pyrak>	ftw
23:13:40 *	nile_ has quit ("leaving")
23:13:40 *	hj_ is bkack and loves the / me coomand
23:13:48 <skyfaller>	the Web Team is the only surviving "Team" from all of the teams we used to have
23:13:53 <skyfaller>	and it's still doing great work
23:13:55 <skyfaller>	why is that?
23:14:06 <gavinbaker>	well... there were long stretches of inactivity, weren't there?
23:14:15 <gavinbaker>	and there were some pretty significant failures
23:14:22 *	Yaco2 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:14:23 <gavinbaker>	so... it's not a perfect team :)
23:14:26 <skyfaller>	sure, our webhost died and lost all of our data
23:14:34 <skyfaller>	and our website was offline for a few weeks
23:14:36 <gavinbaker>	and we had no backups (or, not complete)
23:14:46 <skyfaller>	but that's not what I want to focus on ;-)
23:14:50 <skyfaller>	it gets points for showing up
23:14:53 <gavinbaker>	heh
23:15:00 <skyfaller>	unlike the other teams which fell out of existence
23:15:17 <gavinbaker>	well, Core Team has sort of defaulted to the Board
23:15:23 <gavinbaker>	but everything else has vanished
23:15:28 <skyfaller>	one thing that I think has helped the web team is the fact that its tasks were broken down into manageable parts
23:15:33 <pyrak>	skyfaller, i think one reason the web team is successful is, like you said, entry is really easy
23:15:41 <skyfaller>	and several months ago we started publishing bugs on the Bug Tracker
23:15:44 <skyfaller>	https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs
23:15:55 <skyfaller>	this is a list of all of the tasks that the web team needs to do 
23:15:57 <gavinbaker>	another reason Web Team works is because everybody hangs out in IRC :)
23:16:02 <skyfaller>	laid out clearly and succinctly
23:16:06 <Christina_>	what were the other teams? 
23:16:09 <nile>	gavinbaker, the key to success
23:16:16 <Fear_of_C>	IRC needs to be more advertised, I think
23:16:16 <gavinbaker>	is the Webteam list still used?
23:16:17 <skyfaller>	and you can track our progress by seeing people open and close bugs
23:16:22 <gavinbaker>	Christina_: see http://wiki.freeculture.org/Mailing_lists
23:16:28 *	cameronparkins has quit ()
23:16:32 <Fear_of_C>	I didn't know about it until skyfaller mentioned it in IM, I think
23:16:39 <Christina_>	thank you
23:16:44 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: yes, it is, for stuff that isn't bug reports, like when is our next web team meeting?
23:16:48 <gavinbaker>	Christina_: actually, see http://wiki.freeculture.org/Teams
23:16:52 <skyfaller>	heh
23:17:06 <skyfaller>	yeah, that is another thing that the web team does well
23:17:11 <skyfaller>	I think it has some camraderie
23:17:13 <Christina_>	yea I found it, staight forward
23:17:21 <skyfaller>	because they're all geeks that hang out in this IRC channel and talk to one another
23:17:24 <gavinbaker>	irc++
23:17:42 <skyfaller>	this may not be the exact way to bring together the other teams, although I think it is definitely a good method
23:17:54 <skyfaller>	face-to-face meetings like we proposed earlier today are one method
23:18:12 <skyfaller>	conference calls and videoconferences are other possibilities (for people who have that technology / budget)O
23:18:25 <pyrak>	we could try to replicate the bug tracker for other teams
23:18:33 <pyrak>	like i said, with a craig's list type thing
23:18:38 <skyfaller>	but regardless, some camraderie like our IRC channel is good
23:18:38 <gavinbaker>	another reason the web team has worked is because it has a leader
23:18:40 <Christina_>	i was just going to say conference calls - easy & efficient 
23:18:41 <pyrak>	like a "job listing" for volunteer work
23:18:48 <gavinbaker>	paulproteus has been there to make things happen when nobody else was
23:18:52 <Fear_of_C>	teamspeak!
23:18:52 <skyfaller>	Christina_: IRC is better in some ways, but that's an argument for another day
23:19:01 <gavinbaker>	teams need a leader for stuff to consistently get done
23:19:29 <skyfaller>	yeah, Asheesh has done a good job of organizing the labor
23:19:38 <paulproteus>	gavinbaker, With all due modesty, I can't underestimate how important I've been....
23:19:38 <skyfaller>	and I guess I can pat myself on the back for recruiting people to join the web team
23:19:48 <Christina_>	I love this so far, so easy 
23:19:49 <paulproteus>	During time gaps, that is.
23:19:53 <nile>	paulproteus, you're so wonderful!
23:19:54 <nile>	0_0
23:20:02 <nile>	=)
23:20:09 <skyfaller>	paulproteus = Asheesh
23:20:11 <pyrak>	<3
23:20:13 <paulproteus>	Now when we have dudes like pyrak appearing as if out of nowhere it's certainly quite some relief!
23:20:27 <gavinbaker>	paulproteus is the capitalist that organizes the unwashed masses. that's why he's awesome!
23:20:42 *	nile glances at gavinbaker 
23:20:44 <skyfaller>	yeah, unfortunately our recruiting method was "Nelson personally IMs people" or "people hang out in IRC and hear about web stuff"
23:20:54 <skyfaller>	we need to make it more public in the future
23:20:57 <skyfaller>	same with other teams
23:21:03 <gavinbaker>	ok, so how to do that?
23:21:17 <pyrak>	ok, i fear i'm becoming redundant
23:21:17 <skyfaller>	(1) have meetings
23:21:32 <skyfaller>	publicly announced meetings
23:21:32 <pyrak>	but again, "job board"/craigslist setup
23:21:44 <gavinbaker>	pyrak: we've heard you -- it'll be in the minutes!
23:21:52 <pyrak>	awesome, sorry for redundancy
23:21:52 <skyfaller>	so here's where we announce the meeting time!
23:21:56 <skyfaller>	heh
23:22:18 <skyfaller>	so who wants to volunteer and when are you free?  I'd like to propose Weds 10pm EDT, because that's a traditional time that has worked in the past
23:22:29 <skyfaller>	but we could also do Sunday afternoon before the Chapters meeting
23:22:32 <gavinbaker>	personally, i'm don't think i'll show up at 10pm EDT on a weeknight
23:22:32 <skyfaller>	or any other time
23:22:33 *	conley (n=conley@72.29.62.203) has joined #freeculture
23:22:40 <gavinbaker>	i think that'll be the same for others who work on the East Coast
23:22:46 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: well, many people are busy with activities until late at night
23:22:50 <Christina_>	I can't either, bad wifi in my apt
23:22:50 *	conley steps back in
23:22:54 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: remember it's the summer
23:22:54 <paulproteus>	I'm going to go eat dinner now.
23:22:56 <erinR>	me either - work
23:23:00 <skyfaller>	heh
23:23:09 <skyfaller>	well, with a new group of people comes a new time that's good for everyone I guess
23:23:11 <pyrak>	paulproteus, bon appetit
23:23:11 <gavinbaker>	is the weekend terrible for people? like sunday?
23:23:14 <skyfaller>	what about Sunday afternoon?
23:23:27 <skyfaller>	I mean, the problem with that time used to be that people had homework due the next day
23:23:35 <gavinbaker>	well, not over the summer.
23:23:43 <gavinbaker>	we don't have to pick a time that'll last forever, just for a month
23:23:44 <skyfaller>	OK, so I guess we're talking about over the summer now
23:23:45 <skyfaller>	that's true
23:23:47 <Christina_>	I thought tonight's time was good even though i had to be late for this one
23:24:02 <skyfaller>	Christina_: I wanted to have the chapter meetings at this time
23:24:02 <erinR>	i thought so too
23:24:03 <gavinbaker>	hell, if we can have the first volunteer meeting, it's a start, and we can schedule-adjust from there
23:24:03 <Fear_of_C>	it's getting late on the east coast over here
23:24:09 <skyfaller>	but we could have volunteer meetings before or after
23:24:25 <skyfaller>	would people want to arrive an hour early for the chapters meeting, say at 8pm EDT?
23:24:27 <nile>	Sunday, 9pm EDT. good for me.
23:24:44 <nile>	8 is okay too
23:24:46 <pyrak>	re: meetings one after another, consider overflow, like we're seeing now ;)
23:24:50 <Christina_>	8 is fine
23:24:57 <skyfaller>	well, one meeting will have to be viciously cut off
23:25:04 <pyrak>	true
23:25:08 <skyfaller>	and if we have the volunteers meeting first, that's what will be cut off
23:25:10 <skyfaller>	viciously
23:25:13 <skyfaller>	and without remorse
23:25:15 <gavinbaker>	skyfaller: are we going to have weekly chapters meetings?
23:25:27 <skyfaller>	I think we should
23:25:28 <gavinbaker>	i mean, what exactly will happen at those meetings?
23:25:38 <skyfaller>	they can be short and unofficial if people don't have a lot of business
23:25:44 <skyfaller>	but I think it would be good for people to talk to each other
23:25:48 <gavinbaker>	what "business" would there be for chapters?
23:25:53 <pyrak>	for my money (2cents?) i agree that sunday nights people may be busy stressing about getting a paper done by morning
23:26:03 <pyrak>	at least i will be, personally
23:26:06 <Fear_of_C>	sunday nights are probably not as good during the school year
23:26:08 <skyfaller>	pyrak: but they're even more stressed during the week
23:26:14 <skyfaller>	and are too busy partying on Friday and Saturday
23:26:16 <Fear_of_C>	they are ok during the summer as long as they do not run too late
23:26:18 <skyfaller>	heh
23:26:26 <skyfaller>	which is why we used to have them on Weds
23:26:30 <skyfaller>	b/c that's the middle of the week
23:26:30 <gavinbaker>	look, scheduling is hard. we don't have to find a perfect time now. let's just pick a time for next week!
23:26:31 <Fear_of_C>	actually, I think I'm usually less stressed thursday night than sunday
23:26:32 <pyrak>	summertime this isn't a concern, true
23:26:37 <skyfaller>	and presumably relatively unstressful
23:26:38 <Christina_>	sundays are still fine, i start stressing monday mornings
23:26:44 <gavinbaker>	let's pick a time for next week. we can pick later times later.
23:26:45 <skyfaller>	yeah
23:26:51 <skyfaller>	we'll talk about times during the school year another time
23:27:05 <skyfaller>	but is Sunday at 8pm EDT fine for everyone over the summer?
23:27:13 <erinR>	yes
23:27:13 <Fear_of_C>	seems pretty good
23:27:16 <gavinbaker>	speak now or forever hold your peace (at least, until next week)
23:27:31 <pyrak>	personally, i'm off a week from tomorrow, so may not be able to make it next week
23:27:37 <pyrak>	then for the following month :(
23:27:41 <pyrak>	but i'll do my best
23:27:41 *	CTho has quit (Connection timed out)
23:27:44 <skyfaller>	pyrak: that's fine, you're already volunteering with the web team
23:27:50 <Christina_>	Yes to 8
23:27:56 <skyfaller>	you have a chapter to run, you don't have to be on 5 teams :P
23:28:09 <pyrak>	yeah, but my chapter is not so active
23:28:15 <skyfaller>	pyrak: then you should work on that!
23:28:23 <pyrak>	whipping highschoolers into an activist mentality is extremely difficult
23:28:36 <gavinbaker>	pyrak: just tell them they're taking bittorrent away
23:28:37 <skyfaller>	we can get other coders, but we can't get other people at your high school unless you personally recruit them
23:28:42 <gavinbaker>	(do kids still use bittorrent?)
23:28:47 <Fear_of_C>	yeah
23:28:48 <gavinbaker>	question, should the web team (or at least a rep) be at the volunteers meeting?
23:29:00 <skyfaller>	yeah, a rep should always be at the volunteers meeting I think
23:29:08 <skyfaller>	so that if the other volunteers need some web stuff done
23:29:14 <skyfaller>	they can ask the web team rep abouut it
23:29:35 <skyfaller>	paulproteus: would you be OK with Sunday at 8pm EDT?
23:29:42 <skyfaller>	oh, he's eating
23:29:42 <gavinbaker>	ok. so anyone who wants to volunteer, bring your pretty faces 'round here at 8pmEDT a week from now
23:29:58 <gavinbaker>	uh, hanging out in IRC is also a good way to get involved
23:30:03 <skyfaller>	wait
23:30:03 <gavinbaker>	not to plug IRC too hard ;)
23:30:07 <skyfaller>	we're going to start a mailing list again
23:30:10 <skyfaller>	for volunteers
23:30:14 <gavinbaker>	is that the same as Core?
23:30:15 <Fear_of_C>	stupid question: what time zone is EDT?
23:30:19 <skyfaller>	can we call it Core for old time's sake?
23:30:24 <skyfaller>	Fear_of_C: Eastern time
23:30:25 <gavinbaker>	Fear_of_C: it's 11:30pm in EDT right now
23:30:30 <Fear_of_C>	ah, ok, cool
23:30:30 <skyfaller>	during daylight savings time
23:30:31 <conley>	that is the east
23:30:31 <Fear_of_C>	thanks
23:30:47 <skyfaller>	So volunteers will organize using the Core list?
23:30:49 <gavinbaker>	see www.timeanddate.com for all your reference needs
23:30:53 <skyfaller>	core@freeculture.org ?
23:30:57 <skyfaller>	is that fine with people?
23:31:16 *	e (i=ab40f482@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-c15705dae3aef3c8) has joined #freeculture
23:31:17 <poningru>	sure
23:31:19 <skyfaller>	heh, I guess so
23:31:21 <Christina_>	yes
23:31:23 <skyfaller>	ok
23:31:25 <poningru>	e?
23:31:28 <skyfaller>	who wants to be subscribed to Core
23:31:31 <gavinbaker>	is this how we used to use core?
23:31:32 <poningru>	erin?
23:31:36 <Christina_>	me
23:31:40 <skyfaller>	give me your e-mail addresses
23:31:40 <Fear_of_C>	me too
23:31:41 <poningru>	k
23:31:44 <gavinbaker>	and who will decide who gets subscribed to core?
23:31:47 <Fear_of_C>	nlaracu1@swarthmore.edu
23:31:49 *	pyrak raises hand
23:31:50 <nile>	skyfaller, it's fine!
23:31:50 <poningru>	poningru@ufl.edu
23:32:03 <pyrak>	gameguy43@gmail.com
23:32:05 <nile>	skyfaller, I want to!
23:32:09 <gavinbaker>	should we just put out the call on chapters list? and have people forward it to their chapters?
23:32:11 <skyfaller>	nile: e-mail address
23:32:16 <nile>	nile @ deadbox.ath.cx
23:32:17 <skyfaller>	gavinbaker: yeah, we'll put out a call on the Chapters list
23:32:21 <e>	my browser keeps closing
23:32:29 <skyfaller>	and anyone can join if they're interested in volunteering
23:32:31 <gavinbaker>	p.s. why can't we call it volunteers@freeculture.org? (or, better, volunteers@lists.freeculture.org ?)
23:32:38 <nile>	silly firefox.
23:32:43 <skyfaller>	e: you should get a real IRC client, sorry that the web portal isn't working for you
23:32:51 <skyfaller>	e: I can help you with that after the meeting
23:32:57 <gavinbaker>	s/firefox/iceweasel | no trademark violations in here!
23:32:58 <BrianRowe>	Later, see you next week.
23:33:14 <nile>	bye bye BrianRowe 
23:33:14 *	poningru beats up gavinbaker 
23:33:16 <gavinbaker>	bye BrianRowe ! more happy-fun-time next week!
23:33:21 <skyfaller>	... I can change it to volunteers
23:33:21 *	BrianRowe (n=Brion@71-35-169-59.tukw.qwest.net) has left #freeculture
23:33:26 <skyfaller>	I don't really care
23:33:33 <poningru>	hey guys lets keep this meeting going
23:33:38 <skyfaller>	Core just gives me warm fuzzies, but don't listen to the nostalgic fogey
23:33:39 <poningru>	only half an hour to make it 3 hours
23:33:40 <Christina_>	cducruet@gmail.com
23:33:42 <gavinbaker>	poningru, it's done once we decide this
23:33:46 <nile>	volunteers is probably a bit more obvious than core, but I really don't care.
23:33:54 <skyfaller>	ok, fine Volunteers it is
23:33:59 <poningru>	waah
23:33:59 <pyrak>	++
23:34:01 <skyfaller>	in with the new
23:34:03 <skyfaller>	out with the old
23:34:12 <hj_>	Who has the minute ?
23:34:13 <nile>	volunt33rs
23:34:15 <gavinbaker>	i thought the Core Team was the predecessor to Board... well, it was both... for decision-making and for doing-stuff
23:34:21 <nile>	hj_, gavinbaker (supposedly)
23:34:30 <gavinbaker>	hj_: yes, i'll send them to the chapters list. are you on that list?
23:34:31 <skyfaller>	Core was everyone who volunteered with FC.o
23:34:41 <skyfaller>	FC.o back then was a "work-o-cracy"
23:34:43 *	poningru pastes log
23:34:52 <skyfaller>	where we decided things by consensus among the people who volunteered nationally
23:34:52 <poningru>	we still are
23:34:52 *	nile isn't on the chapters list =(
23:35:07 <nile>	skyfaller, can you add me to that?
23:35:17 <skyfaller>	nile: sure, I'll go do that
23:35:20 <gavinbaker>	ok, is everybody on the chapters list? tell me now (preferably in PM, if you know how) if you aren't
23:35:44 <pyrak>	meeting closed?
23:35:54 <nile>	(type /msg gavinbaker hi gavin, this is a private message)
23:35:57 <skyfaller>	nile: nile@deadbox.ath.cx  is subscribed to the Chapters list
23:36:00 <pyrak>	other orders of business
23:36:04 <gavinbaker>	Christina_, erinR, pyrak, hj_: you're on the chapters@freeculture.org mailing list?
23:36:05 *	nile cheers
23:36:13 <skyfaller>	nile: no, it was subscribed already
23:36:21 <gavinbaker>	pyrak: this is the last order of business for the night
23:36:23 <skyfaller>	nile:  so you should investigate why you didn't get the last e-maill
23:36:28 <Christina_>	I think I am?
23:36:31 <gavinbaker>	pyrak: what, this meeting wasn't long enough for you?
23:36:38 <pyrak>	gavinbaker, hm, i think i'm only on discuss, add me: gameguy43@gmail.com
23:36:42 <gavinbaker>	Christina_: check if you just got some messages from me to that list
23:36:49 <Christina_>	ok 
23:36:57 <gavinbaker>	(in the future we'll have a more organized way of making sure people get on the chapters list)
23:37:10 <gavinbaker>	(in the future, time travel will be safe!)
23:37:15 <Christina_>	I am on it, I thought so thanks
23:37:28 <skyfaller>	pyrak: gameguy43@gmail.com  is already subscribed too
23:37:35 <skyfaller>	why the fuck aren't our e-mails getting to people?
23:37:39 <skyfaller>	WTF
23:37:41 <nile>	skyfaller, oh. what the hell.
23:37:49 <gavinbaker>	are we being greylisted? spam-filtered? deleting them before you read them? ...
23:37:54 *	ryanfaerman (n=ryanfaer@crlspr-69.65.71.237.myacc.net) has joined #freeculture
23:38:19 <skyfaller>	I hate e-mail, just for the record
23:38:33 <gavinbaker>	p.s. if you're on the chapters list, you can post to it, too! yay for r/w culture :D
23:38:52 <pyrak>	ok, i found an email from fc-chapters, so i think i'm good
23:39:05 <skyfaller>	ok
23:39:08 <nile>	nevermind. I am on it.
23:39:12 *	nile gets gavin's mail
23:39:16 <skyfaller>	pyrak, nile: pay attention next time :P
23:39:28 <gavinbaker>	nile: unlike some blackholes we know
23:39:41 <skyfaller>	OK, well, that's it
23:39:52 <gavinbaker>	um. so i'll start a wiki page for next week's volunteer meeting
23:40:01 <skyfaller>	we'll be announcing through various venues that we're having a volunteers meeting next week
23:40:05 <skyfaller>	and another chapters meeting
23:40:07 <gavinbaker>	it'll be 2007-07-(15+7)
23:40:14 <gavinbaker>	er, that's 2007-07-22
23:40:19 <skyfaller>	good math, Gavin
23:40:25 <gavinbaker>	if you have something you want to talk about, add it to that page
23:40:28 <pyrak>	i wanna throw out a crazy idea for a "project" that i came up with the other day
23:40:36 <gavinbaker>	pyrak: put it on the wiki :)
23:40:44 <skyfaller>	pyrak: bring it up at the volunteers meeting
23:40:46 <gavinbaker>	and once we get the list set up, we can discuss it on the volunteers list
23:40:49 <skyfaller>	put it on the agenda beforehand
23:40:53 <nile>	skyfaller, I guess I just assumed the announcement email was sent to fc-discuss
23:40:58 <pyrak>	ok
23:41:10 <skyfaller>	nile: no, nobody on FC-discuss is actually in a chapter :P  
23:41:27 <nile>	right, makes sense.
23:41:29 *	nile dances
23:41:35 <nile>	yay meeting over!
23:41:36 <skyfaller>	alright, this meeting is finally over
23:41:40 <gavinbaker>	so any projects or working ideas, bring them to the volunteers meeting (post them on the wiki beforehand)
23:41:42 <skyfaller>	let's all go home and get drunk or something
23:41:47 <gavinbaker>	read over the bylaws and comment on them!
23:41:48 <nile>	gavinbaker, seriously. blackholes for the lose
23:41:54 <skyfaller>	for the record, not all meetings are this long
23:42:00 <skyfaller>	this is just the first meeting we've had in months
23:42:07 <nile>	skyfaller, I'm straightedge, you insensitive clod!
23:42:13 <skyfaller>	so stuff has piled up
23:42:23 <skyfaller>	nile: gavin says you're lying ;-)
23:42:42 <skyfaller>	e, pyrak, conley.... you needed webspace help?
23:42:48 <skyfaller>	Fear_of_C?
23:42:49 <conley>	sure
23:43:05 <skyfaller>	I guess who has to go to bed first?
23:43:15 <skyfaller>	to each according to his need!
23:43:22 *	skyfaller establishes webspace marxism
23:43:29 *	gavinbaker has changed the topic to: FreeCulture.org | student movement for free culture | http://freeculture.org/ | Bug tracker: https://launchpad.net/web/+bugs | New Web site just launched, check it out! | Minutes from last Chapters meeting at: http://wiki.freeculture.org/2007-07-15| Volunteer meeting Sunday, 2 July at 8 pm EDT
23:43:51 <Christina_>	ok
23:43:54 <Christina_>	night night
23:44:03 <pyrak>	skyfaller, i think i already filed bugs for the stuff i needed
23:44:05 <skyfaller>	Christina_: thanks for coming!
23:44:08 <pyrak>	so you can get to it whenever
23:44:10 <gavinbaker>	bye Christina_ !
23:44:20 <gavinbaker>	poningru: will you dump the log on the wiki and link me when you have?
23:44:22 <Christina_>	glad I got to be here for a little bit!
23:44:30 <Christina_>	see you at the volunteer mtg i guess
23:44:33 <Christina_>	bye
23:44:50 <skyfaller>	Christina_: thanks for coming!
23:44:52 *	Christina_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]")